How to do split "above/below" shots

[Jonathan Bird]

A while back I did a write up on how to shoot split "above/below" shots which is on my website:

http://www.jonathanbird.net/photo_tip2.htm

It is interesting to realize that with the greater depth of field of digital cameras and really wide lenses, if you have enough light to stop it down enough, you can often pull it off without split diopters. (But it still looks better with a diopter!)

I thought I could start off a discussion of this technique by sharing my "how to" article then have people add their own thoughts and images.

Jonathan

P.S. I know a lot of people do them in the computer now by compositing two images but that never looks right and furthermore, it's CHEATING! ;)

http://www.jonathanbird.net/jpegs7/split2.jpg

[Mike Veitch]

Got a Dioptre that fits my 10.5mm Jono!?!?!

:D

[Jonathan Bird]

Like you would need it!! How about posting some splits done with the 10.5, I would be curious how they look.

Actually, I need to make a new one for my 12-24. Seems like every time I get a new lens, the buggers put a different filter size on there and I need to make yet another. They are expensive suckers to have made!

Jonathan

[Mike Veitch]

actually....

i don't have any.... :eek:

too windy around here most of the time

[Jonathan Bird]

Now you have an assignment for UWPhotoChat!! ;)

Jonathan

[Brandon Cole]

Jonathan-
I just broke 2 of mine, and need to make some new ones too. However, I can't find anyone in my town to cut the glass, so if you don't mind sharing the name of your guy, that would be great.

Brandon

[Jonathan Bird]

Brandon,
It's my uncle, who is an optician and owns a couple stores. He HATES doing it for me, but I make him anyway, because he is the only guy I know that can cut the glass! I'll ask him if he would be willing to make them for others and what he would charge.

I actually want to get a new one made in 77mm for my 12-24 and I have been hesitating asking him!

Jonathan

[Brandon Cole]

Jonathan-
I'd hate to contribute to your disinheritance by adding fuel to the fire...
Seriously, though, if you move forward, let me know.
I'd be thinking of 77mm +2 close-up (high quality like B+W) on bottom half, and a high quality grad. ND (probably 2 stops) dark on top fading to clear below. Probably another combo or two as well.
Brandon

[Jonathan Bird]

OK, I just sent him an e-mail. We'll see what he says!!

Jonathan

[tarczy]

Sounds like your Uncle could make a killing by supplying the needs of the underwater photographer community . . . :eek:

[Jonathan Bird]

Problem is he has to make them by cutting down full size filters which is incredibly time consuming. He would have to charge an outrageous amount o money for them. What would be smarter is if I went to a filter manufacturer and got a load of them made!

jonathan

[sorvju-f]

Problem is he has to make them by cutting down full size filters which is incredibly time consuming. He would have to charge an outrageous amount o money for them. What would be smarter is if I went to a filter manufacturer and got a load of them made!

jonathan

To me it is unclear if you are using something to float your camera set in the mid position. My set is so much negative, that only way to do it to place set on my stomage and use BCD, but then the fins are always part of composition:rolleyes: .

Which objectives are the best for these pics?

Is the diopter half must?

Jukka

[Jonathan Bird]

Unless you are using a fisheye, yes, you really need the split diopter or only half the image will be in focus. If you are shooting predominantly underwater and you just have the sky in there, it might be fine being out of focus. But if you want both above and below in focus, you need the split diopter.

As for supporting the camera, it works best in shallow water where you can stand up! ;)

Otherwise, it's a huge pain. Inflate the BC, take the strobe arms off the camera, and shoot a lot until you get something. Much harder in the film days when you only had 36 tries! You can easily shoot 100 frames before you get it just right because of the random water surface movement, the movement of the housing, and not being able to see well through the viewfinder when it is also half in the water.

Jonathan

[sorvju-f]

Unless you are using a fisheye, yes, you really need the split diopter or only half the image will be in focus. If you are shooting predominantly underwater and you just have the sky in there, it might be fine being out of focus. But if you want both above and below in focus, you need the split diopter.

As for supporting the camera, it works best in shallow water where you can stand up! ;)

Otherwise, it's a huge pain. Inflate the BC, take the strobe arms off the camera, and shoot a lot until you get something. Much harder in the film days when you only had 36 tries! You can easily shoot 100 frames before you get it just right because of the random water surface movement, the movement of the housing, and not being able to see well through the viewfinder when it is also half in the water.

Jonathan

Hi there our new sponsor!!!! Needed one half diopter dome and macro. the bugs are here waiting for your action.

Jukka

[sorvju-f]

Unless you are using a fisheye, yes, you really need the split diopter or only half the image will be in focus. If you are shooting predominantly underwater and you just have the sky in there, it might be fine being out of focus. But if you want both above and below in focus, you need the split diopter.

As for supporting the camera, it works best in shallow water where you can stand up! ;)

Otherwise, it's a huge pain. Inflate the BC, take the strobe arms off the camera, and shoot a lot until you get something. Much harder in the film days when you only had 36 tries! You can easily shoot 100 frames before you get it just right because of the random water surface movement, the movement of the housing, and not being able to see well through the viewfinder when it is also half in the water.

Jonathan

What makes fisheye to work without diopter...is it big yield of debth or...?

What you say about really wide angle objective like 7 mm?

Have to think about byoancy... somethin floating under housing???...again something you need to your travelling kit:eek:

Jukka

[Jonathan Bird]

What makes fisheye to work without diopter...is it big yield of debth or...?



Two things. Fisheyes have a huge depth of field when stopped down, so they can often pull it off without a diopter. Also, fisheyes are so wide that they cannot accept a filter on the front without vignetting, so you can't put a diopter on there anyway.

Jonathan

[sorvju-f]

Two things. Fisheyes have a huge depth of field when stopped down, so they can often pull it off without a diopter. Also, fisheyes are so wide that they cannot accept a filter on the front without vignetting, so you can't put a diopter on there anyway.

Jonathan

So finally I have this half diopter need...but I dont know from where,
Is somebody knows please advice!

Jukka

[jamesw]

Hi Guys,

Jon: I'm giving a talk in a few weeks at Visions about under/over techniques. You mind if I use your graphics in my powerpoint slides? If no, that's OK, I understand.

I have been shooting a lot of splits lately as I got a gig shooting for a water aerobics book (all splits). I found you can buy the split diopter at B&H! They have up to 72mm size, but sorry, no 77mm :-( Just go there and do a search for split field lens or split field diopter. You can cut a hard resin ND filter to size to fit in the top half Brandon - get an ND soft grad cokin mount and it will work.

I have been shooting a lot of models w/ the under/over and my 17-40L. For some reason they don't like the fisheye - I wonder why? ;-) I noticed that if you use the split diopter for these that the model's head and sholders look "too small" compared to the magnified underwater portion. Here's a really bad photo I made using a +2 / 2stop ND split filter at 17mm F8 that illustrates the problem. The subject was about 4 feet away:

http://www.reefpix.org/gallery2/d/17309-1/jwiseman-1745.jpg

For this reason I've been using the 17mm Tokina or Canon 17-40 stopped down to F13 or 16 and everything is acceptably sharp. Here's an example:

http://www.reefpix.org/gallery2/d/17204-2/VC9H1394.jpg

My focus point was on the model's face which was about 4' from the camera. The DOF was still able to cover her feet somehow - maybe because I was using the Superdome???

Cheers
James

[jamesw]

Here's a link to the threaded split diopters at B&H:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=search&A=search&Q=&ci=0&sb=bs%2Cupper%28ds%29&sq=asc&ac=&bsi=&ci=162&shs=&at=Type_Split+Field

Cheers
James

[sorvju-f]

Here's a link to the threaded split diopters at B&H:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=search&A=search&Q=&ci=0&sb=bs%2Cupper%28ds%29&sq=asc&ac=&bsi=&ci=162&shs=&at=Type_Split+Field

Cheers
James

I was looking the web site, do you think its working with video also?

Just to clarify

Is the "small head" with fisheye and diopter + 2?

You mean that enough deep DOF is only able to get by F13 or bigger?

Dome is must to split pics?

I would like to make pics/video with the specs of sitting model:rolleyes:

Jukka

[Jonathan Bird]

Hi James,
Cool link. I knew they used to carry splits at B&H but in recent years I couldn't find any. Too bad they only go to 72 mm though.

Feel free to use the graphics in the PP presentation.

Very interesting comparison with and without the filter and the effect it has on the underwater magnification. I can see why the models don't like it!!

Best,

Jonathan

[ftansari]

Like you would need it!! How about posting some splits done with the 10.5, I would be curious how they look.

Actually, I need to make a new one for my 12-24. Seems like every time I get a new lens, the buggers put a different filter size on there and I need to make yet another. They are expensive suckers to have made!

Jonathan
John... Here is some picture using 10.5 mm
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3166/3009818976_bcdbcf414d.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3025/3009819064_143beb6de7.jpg

[Sharp]

Here is couple of mine split pictures with INON UWL 100 dome.

http://www.pasilensu.com/kuvagalleriat/Burbot%20-%20Lota%20lota/slides/split_henry2.jpg

http://www.pasilensu.com/kuvagalleriat/Burbot%20-%20Lota%20lota/slides/split_henry5.jpg

[sorvju-f]

Here is couple of mine split pictures with INON UWL 100 dome.


Going rather smoothly between air and water...only thing I see difference in lines is the tank in first one. This is the subject I have no experience yet,

Jukka

[Danos]

I also gave it a try on my last vacation..

[Jonathan Bird]

I also gave it a try on my last vacation..

Which lens is that Daniel? Looks good!

[Danos]

thanks, this picture was taken with the Tokina 10-17 FE.

Since I haven't got the split diopters, I used the new graduate filter option in Lightroom to darken the sky. I think it works quit well. Although a split diopter would probably give a better result.

[Jonathan Bird]

That must be in the new version of lightroom. I have never seen that option. Neat!

[Greg E]

Great info here!

Jonathan, in your Split Shot Technique article you mentioned 18mm and 20mm lenses are preferred. Would that be on a crop camera or a full frame DSLR? I'm considering a lens purchase for these type of shots but I shoot a FF Canon 5D. I'll be using a 8" Ikelite dome.

Also regarding split field filters. The Hoya split field filters listed on the B&H link and this one http://www.camerafilters.com/pages/split_field.aspx are not listed as +1, +2, +4 but rather just "close up". I understand these filters do not have the ND on the upper half but since they were already brought up as an option I was wondering if you or anyone knew what the "close up" half of the filter would be equivalent to (+1, +2, etc.).

Thanks! Great article and thread!

[Jonathan Bird]

Interesting link. They only go up to 72mm. Bummer, I really would like a 77mm for my 12-24.

I'll bet they are +2. (Which would be fine.) They don't say though.

When I mentioned the 18mm and 20mm lenses in my tutorial, I was discussing them on a film camera, (old tutorial!) so that would be full frame. An 18mm on a crop sensor wouldn't really cut the mustard. The 12mm end on the 12-24 would make a nice split lens, if you could get a split diopter in 77mm. Otherwise, I think the Tokina 10-17 fisheye or the Nikon 10.5mm will get the job done without the split diopter.

Jonathan

[sorvju-f]

Interesting link. They only go up to 72mm. Bummer, I really would like a 77mm for my 12-24.

I'll bet they are +2. (Which would be fine.) They don't say though.

When I mentioned the 18mm and 20mm lenses in my tutorial, I was discussing them on a film camera, (old tutorial!) so that would be full frame. An 18mm on a crop sensor wouldn't really cut the mustard. The 12mm end on the 12-24 would make a nice split lens, if you could get a split diopter in 77mm. Otherwise, I think the Tokina 10-17 fisheye or the Nikon 10.5mm will get the job done without the split diopter.

Jonathan

To me it has always been problem to lift the set to 50% position ( open water ). Is there some techniques to do it?

Jukka

[Jonathan Bird]

The most common way I do it is by standing up! If the water is too deep for that, inflate the BC...fully!

[scubagirl]

Here's my first attempt with an over/under shot. I was using my 10.5mm FE. In post-processing, I used the Neutral Density filter in Lightroom to darken the sky. It was hard to hold my camera to get 50/50 land/water!

http://scubagirl.smugmug.com/photos/603920121_DA5xU-M.jpg

[Jonathan Bird]

Nice first attempt! You can see the issue with holding focus both above and below water, and of course the huge exposure difference.

I need to buy Lightroom 2 because that split neutral density filter is cool.

Jonathan

[Sharp]

Here is my splits for this summer.

http://www.pasilensu.com/kuvagalleriat/Divers%20and%20Pikes%20are%20Posing/slides/divers_start_they_dive_split.jpg

http://www.pasilensu.com/kuvagalleriat/Divers%20and%20Pikes%20are%20Posing/slides/split_marko_and_seppo_5.jpg

http://www.pasilensu.com/kuvagalleriat/Divers%20and%20Pikes%20are%20Posing/slides/split_marko_and_seppo_6.jpg

http://www.pasilensu.com/kuvagalleriat/Divers%20and%20Pikes%20are%20Posing/slides/split_marko_and_seppo_8.jpg

http://www.pasilensu.com/kuvagalleriat/Divers%20and%20Pikes%20are%20Posing/slides/split_marko_and_seppo_10.jpg

[Sharp]

Look of the faces tells everything.:D

http://www.pasilensu.com/kuvagalleriat/Divers%20and%20Pikes%20are%20Posing/slides/split_marko_and_seppo_surf.jpg

[sorvju-f]

Here is my splits for this summer.

http://www.pasilensu.com/kuvagalleriat/Divers%20and%20Pikes%20are%20Posing/slides/divers_start_they_dive_split.jpg



Gongratulation Pasi!

This picture has been chosen as best UW-picture in Finland year 2009.

Pasi was also among tree best in several other themes and winner of video serie.

Hope to hear some comments from you Pasi.

Jukka

[scubagirl]

Congratulations, Pasi!

[Andrew]

Thats a great pic Pasi, did not see this thread before. Well done!

Andrew

[Sharp]

Gongratulation Pasi!

This picture has been chosen as best UW-picture in Finland year 2009.

Pasi was also among tree best in several other themes and winner of video serie.

Hope to hear some comments from you Pasi.

Jukka

Thak you very much Jukka, scubagirl and Andrew!

I started the new thread of that subject here (http://www.uwphotochat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=861).

[Viz'art]

This one was done with a nikkor 10.5mm whic has been replaced by a Tokina since.

[sorvju-f]

This one was done with a nikkor 10.5mm whic has been replaced by a Tokina since.

Wellcome Viz'art!

This is great picture as it is still hot in Finland...really refreshing!

Jukka

[Viz'art]

Thanks, it was taken this morning... kidding:) its actually a few years back, great dive site with a twin engine airplabe wreck in the bottom.

[Andrew]

Nice picture Vis-art, makes me cold just looking at it!

Andrew

[Viz'art]

the water is still liquid...therefore its is not that cold yet!:D

[Jonathan Bird]

Nice shot! That guy in the back right though seems to have a deformed head!! ;)

[Viz'art]

Nice shot! That guy in the back right though seems to have a deformed head!! ;)

Nah, he's normal, t'was a rough night at the bar the night before!

That explain why Fisheye lenses are not marketed as portrait lenses:p