The best point and shoot for underwater?

[Jonathan Bird]

I get people asking me all the time "What is the best point and shoot system to use underwater?" I have no idea what to tell them, I am completely clueless about the current state of the art on point and shoots. I would like to get a discussion going here about this.

We have a Canon point and shoot for taking random pictures of the kids. We keep it in the kitchen and drag it to birthday parties and stuff. I can't imagine using it underwater. Not a wide enough lens, and too long of a delay on the shutter. There must be point and shoots now with shorter delays, wider lenses, etc. I would to hear from the experts with point and shoots!! So shoot away!!

Feel free to post pictures of your rig or pictures taken with it as well. Lets build a good thread on the "state of the art" in underwater point and shoots.

Jonathan

[sorvju-f]

I get people asking me all the time "What is the best point and shoot system to use underwater?" I have no idea what to tell them, I am completely clueless about the current state of the art on point and shoots. I would like to get a discussion going here about this.

We have a Canon point and shoot for taking random pictures of the kids. We keep it in the kitchen and drag it to birthday parties and stuff. I can't imagine using it underwater. Not a wide enough lens, and too long of a delay on the shutter. There must be point and shoots now with shorter delays, wider lenses, etc. I would to hear from the experts with point and shoots!! So shoot away!!

Feel free to post pictures of your rig or pictures taken with it as well. Lets build a good thread on the "state of the art" in underwater point and shoots.

Jonathan


I think that todays situation is that more and more divers wants to back up memories by something without using lot of money and finally entering to PAS-cameras.

That just what happended to me. Finally I moved up to DSLR. I think everybody of us knows the feeling underwater without camera... its like being naked in metro.

I might be wrong but for a long time olympus models with their wide-zoom 5060,7070 and 8080 was the main choice, but the production of these ones was stopped couple of years ago. Development in PAS side I feel much faster than DSLR.

Canon powershot models are still today very popular (have been long time ).

Recently my friend asked me advice to get good camerasystem about 2000 EUR for makro and wide and having live view.

My advice to him was

Canon G7, Ikelite housing, DS50 substrobe + arms ( G7 have eTTL), UW-change makro lens and wide-angle lens.

[tarczy]

Well . . . I started my underwater photo hobby with an Olympus C5050 and a Light & Motion Tetra housing with two Sea & Sea Y90 Strobes. What a terrible camera!! I swore I'd never go back to Olympus again. Apparently, the algorithms used by Olympus for this camera were just plain bad, hence the C5050 became the "noisiest" (that would be digital noise) camera on the market.

Since that time, I've grown to love my little Canon SD630. It has the largest viewing screen of any camera in its class currently in production. I call it my "MySpace" camera. However, I'd never use it for underwater photography. Shutter lag is a whopping 1.0 seconds.

If I were to revert back to point-and-shoot, I think I'd take a hard look at the Olympus C-8080 - even though it's obsolete by today's standards. Shutter lag is a super fast 0.4 seconds and the lens widens out to a 28mm equivalent. Oh yeah . . . Olympus fixed the algorithm problem so the digital images are no longer excessively noisy.

Otherwise, I'd go with Jukka's recommendation and opt for the Canon PowerShot G7. Shutter lag is a respectable 0.7 seconds and the lens widens to a 35mm equivalent. Or, the Nikon CoolPix 8800 seems to be a decent contender. It too sports a wide angle lens of 35mm equivalent and boasts a 0.4 second shutter lag.

I'm not a big fan of optically triggered flash systems. For a few hundred bucks more, you can acquire any of the above cameras and enjoy the advantages of TTL flash systems that are hardwired to the camera. If you're using one of the mini-digital cameras with on-board flash, I'm wondering if it's just not a colossal waste of time. Backscatter becomes a huge problem. There are focus and color issues that are much more difficult, if not impossible to correct.

Most of the cameras (except for the Olympus) list for around $999 USD. You can find them on the street for about $700. You can find the Olympus C-8080 on e-bay for about $400 USD. Also, I think Ikelite makes a housing for each of the cameras mentioned and they seem to run about $500 - $600 USD.

A word about "plastic" housings . . .
I used to be a fan of machined aluminum housings. I thought the aluminum housings were much more rugged and could withstand the rigors of underwater photography much better than their cheaper "plastic" counterparts. Plus, I thought they looked "cool." I have now been disabused of that notion.

These days technological advancements in digital photography are appearing at a dizzying pace. Like computers, digital cameras seem to become obsolete every three years. So why spend $3,000 - $4,000 USD on an aluminum housing, when you can get the exact same functionality out of a cheaper plastic housing?

For example, I recently purchased an Ikelite housing for my Canon 5D. List price for the Ike housing was around $1,400. Virtually all of the aluminum housings on the market for the Canon 5D run in the $3,000 - $4,000 range. if I'm going to replace my camera in two or three years, I'd be stupid to pay the extra $1,500 - $2,500 for an aluminum housing. If I'm doing 200 dives per year, that means an aluminum housing costs me around $50 - $100 extra per dive by the time I upgrade my camera. Just think, I can just roll all those savings into my next camera upgrade!!

I dunno. I just don't get the advantages of an aluminum housing anymore.

Anyway . . . just my humble opinion. Sorry for the rant. :rolleyes:

[Jonathan Bird]

Don't forget that aluminum oxidizes where the paint chips off, stainless screws galvanically weld themselves to aluminum in a few dives and never want to come out, and aluminum is heavy to travel with. You also can't see through it. Except for the fact that you have to be careful leaving your transparent housing in the bright sun for extended periods of time, polycarbinate housings are generally better in all ways IMHO. You can see though them to use the controls as well as to insure that they are not leaking. They do not react with salt water in any way, and they are lightweight and inexpensive. Why do you think Sea & Sea gave up on aluminum housings and went plastic. (Except they still charge aluminum housing prices and they make them out of plastic you can't see through, so you get most of the disadvantages of aluminum but none of the advantages of plastic!

Jonathan

[Clay Coleman]

Otherwise, I'd go with Jukka's recommendation and opt for the Canon PowerShot G7. Shutter lag is a respectable 0.7 seconds and the lens widens to a 35mm equivalent.

Holy smokes! Seven tenths of a second? I can't imagine trying to shoot anything moving with that! Obviously, I have no experience with point-and-shoot, but, man, how do folks get anything in the frame with that kind of lag? I would have thought that manufacturers would have the shutter lag more under control by now. -Clay

[tarczy]

Yeah . . . seven tenths of a second is an eternity. However, that represents the time it takes to trigger the shot from when you depress the shutter release until the shot is actually taken.

However, most folks know to depress the shutter release button half way to get the camera to focus, wait for the critter to do what you want it to do, then depress all the way to take the shot. Shutter lag between half depressed to actual release is 0.12 seconds for the Canon G7 and 0.1 seconds for the Nikon CoolPix 8800.

All of that said, it remains an "art" to use a point & shoot for underwater photography. You have to have a tremendous amount of patience and a healthy dose of good luck to get a great shot using a point-and-shoot. :eek:

[tarczy]

Hmmmm . . . I was just reviewing the Canon lineup for point-and-shoots and noticed the Canon Powershot Pro1. Production has been discontinued but you can find 'em all over e-bay. Also, Ikelite made a housing for this camera at one time, so you'll probably be able to also find a housing on e-bay.

The Canon Powershot Pro1 has an 8.0 megapixel sensor (not too shabby) and is equipped with a zoom lens that goes from 28mm to 200mm equivalent. Shutter lag is 0.6 seconds at full press and going from half press to full press, shutter lag is 0.1 seconds.

You can find the Canon Powershot Pro1 here . . .
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canonpro1/ (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canonpro1/)

The Ikelite housing is here . . .
http://www.ikelite.com/web_pages/canpro1.html (http://www.ikelite.com/web_pages/canpro1.html)

[sorvju-f]

Holy smokes! Seven tenths of a second? I can't imagine trying to shoot anything moving with that! Obviously, I have no experience with point-and-shoot, but, man, how do folks get anything in the frame with that kind of lag? I would have thought that manufacturers would have the shutter lag more under control by now. -Clay

Now when I have DSLR I feel the same. Actually shutter speed is working with PAS as DSLR but where the f.ck is the fish.

[Indigo Dive]

I have been using Sea and Sea D8000 and recently made the move to DX1G.

The D8000 is an amazing little camera, and I really enjoyed using it. One of it's first outings was a Fam Trip on Peter Hughes Wind dancer in Sept '06. Several well known UW photoraphers were on board, and they were amazed that I could get such great pictures and video from such a compact camera. Unfortunately I out grew it and decided to upgrade to the DX1G combo. (I also shelled out for the wide angle attachment).

The new model is impressive, and the instruction manual is almost as thick as the King James Bible! (See 'Point and Shoot - Hardly! discussion). There are SOOOOO MANY different settings, and the menu is not as easy to access whilst underwater. Shutter lag isn't as issue per say - for a compact its currently best in class - but switching between modes to set up for a shot is frustrating especially if you forget which preset you set for yourself!

Other niggles
- why make the housing non-see through?
- why put a hand grip with an airspace (which can trigger sheer panic when the air bubbles rising from it are easily confused with a flood in progress!
- macro focusing issues (especially there is silt or other particles in the water as these can become trapped in-between the wide angle lens and the housing).

But my biggest annoyance is that if you forget to open the internal flash whilst loading the camera it cannot be accessed without opening the housing....so there you are, external strobe good to go, great photo ops awaiting you, switch to your presets, hit the flash....hit the flash....nooooooo! Either return to the boat, wash, dry and then open the housing (and I've flooded a camera doing this whilst changing batteries between dives) OR stick it out and hope that you see something that doesn't need a strobe!

Despite these issues the DX1G is a super, light weight, truly compact camera, and the price tag of around US$1000 makes for a great camera system that will keep an avid photographer interested in the camera for quite a long time.

The D8000 model has been discontinued, however it is still in stock at a number of retailers. This camera is AWESOME for beginners, it has the potential to take great shots, and as long as the O ring is taken care of it's virtually bullet proof - mind did over 700 dives before I rushed a battery change and pinched the O ring flooding it.... I cried! (The nice folks at Sea and Sea were able to find me a replacement camera, and I still use the D8000 when I teach UW Photography courses to beginners.

Evidence of what these cameras will do can be found at: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=15884&l=9b3cd&id=728831227

All the best,

Kay Wilson,
Indigo Dive,
St. Vincent

[sorvju-f]

I have been using Sea and Sea D8000 and recently made the move to DX1G.

Evidence of what these cameras will do can be found at: http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=15884&l=9b3cd&id=728831227

All the best,

Kay Wilson,
Indigo Dive,
St. Vincent

Great shots Kay!

Best in my head stayed this pepermint schrimp inside the sponge:D

Jukka