Point and Shoot - hardly!

[nstead]

Having just found out about uwphotochat, I was looking forward to reading interesting discussions etc.

However, it appears that this forum suffers from a disease affecting many professional and semi-professional photographers: "dSLR snobbery".

Take, for example, the forum titles "Film SLR Photography", "Digital SLR Photography", and "Digital Point and Shoot Photography".

I've been using an Olympus C7070 for a couple of years now, and I certainly don't just "Point and Shoot". I frequently use the camera in Manual, or Aperture priority mode, and with an External strobe and different lenses.

Why not call this forum "Digital Compact Photography", and show us Compact owners some respect?

And while I'm having my rant, comments like "Holy smokes! Seven tenths of a second? I can't imagine trying to shoot anything moving with that!" coming from a Moderator just help to prove my point.

Yes, Compacts are slower than dSLRs, and many (but not all) of them don't give you the same control over exposure, aperture, etc., as dSLRs, but it's still possible to get fantastic shots with them - many of the Dive Magazines regularly publish photos taken with Compacts.

Added to that, how many of you dSLR users can take Macro and Wide-angle shots using the same camera on the same dive? I can!

OK, Rant over. Congratulations on setting up a very useful forum - let's just lose some of the dSLR snobbery!

[Clay Coleman]

Welcome to the forum, nstead! And while you're here, why not tell us how you really feel about underwater photography with compact cameras? Seriously, I admit that I know almost nothing about using compact cameras, and my amazement at the .7 second shutter lag was genuine. The comment was not meant to disparage, but to simply express my surprise that quality images (of course, I've seen many excellent results from compact users) can be obtained with such a disadvantage. -Clay

[tarczy]

I can't speak for the Administrator of the board, but I think the title "Point and Shoot" was used because it is the most common phrase used around the world to identify that type of camera. No disrespect intended.

That said, I've seen a bunch of members submit fantastic underwater images shot with a Digital Compact Camera. Compact Camera users who produce enviable underwater images have my complete and total respect - not because of the equipment they use, but because of their photographic skills and their keen eye for composition.

Welcome to the board. We hope it answers all your questions and contributes to the improvement of your photography skills. I can honestly say this board has certainly helped me tremendously. ;)

P.S. Please feel free to post some of your work. We're all here to learn by sharing.

[Jonathan Bird]

However, it appears that this forum suffers from a disease affecting many professional and semi-professional photographers: "dSLR snobbery".

Take, for example, the forum titles "Film SLR Photography", "Digital SLR Photography", and "Digital Point and Shoot Photography".

No offense intended, but a name is just that....a name. Point and Shoot is the term most often applied to these cameras. Look at the B&H catalog. I have never even heard the term "Digital Compact". I suppose "Point and Shoot" is a little insulting, but I didn't invent the name. I have seen many great shots come from P&S cameras, but they have limitations and that is the reason why very few pros shoot with them. We have some very good photographers on this site that shoot with P&S cams though. Would it make you happy if we change the name of the forum? I don't have a problem with it. Digital compact sounds better anyway.

I've been using an Olympus C7070 for a couple of years now, and I certainly don't just "Point and Shoot". I frequently use the camera in Manual, or Aperture priority mode, and with an External strobe and different lenses.

We want pictures! :D

Why not call this forum "Digital Compact Photography", and show us Compact owners some respect?

OK, will do! But not until you post some shots! :cool:

And while I'm having my rant, comments like "Holy smokes! Seven tenths of a second? I can't imagine trying to shoot anything moving with that!" coming from a Moderator just help to prove my point.

Sorry, I agree with that. 7/10 of a second for a shutter to fire is an eternity with some subjects. I would pull my hair our trying to get shots of dolphins or sharks with that kind of shutter delay. That is one of the main limitations of compacts. No getting around it, might as well not pretend it doesn't exist.

Yes, Compacts are slower than dSLRs, and many (but not all) of them don't give you the same control over exposure, aperture, etc., as dSLRs, but it's still possible to get fantastic shots with them - many of the Dive Magazines regularly publish photos taken with Compacts.

Dive magazines will publish virtually anything, but that is besides the point. I agree that you can get great shots with compacts. Put one in the hands of a great photographer and you will get great images, no doubt. I don't think anyone said you couldn't. But this is a forum and people are entitled to their opinions!

Added to that, how many of you dSLR users can take Macro and Wide-angle shots using the same camera on the same dive? I can!

A definite advantage to point and shoots....I mean compacts!;)

Jonathan

[solisti]

However, it appears that this forum suffers from a disease affecting many professional and semi-professional photographers: "dSLR snobbery".


I think dSLR is a natural choice if you are UW photo professional or even semi. I myself shoot compact. I have started taking photos just lately and not having owned a camera before my A95, I have a lot to learn about taking pictures. Underwater and topside. I just bought Nikon D40 for topside photography and I would like to have a dSLR underwater also, but my time and money is limited, so at the time it would make no sense. However, after two hours of getting used to D40, I already noticed the difference in shutter lag. It was not that obvious before (didn't know any better and was happy with what I had.. :) ), but now it seems like an eternity. Anyway, this will be my underwater camera for the time being. I can still learn a lot with it.

This site is quite professional, and in the beginning I wasn't sure if I should register at all, because I felt that I would be 'out of my league' here. I think it was just because there was a category for 'point and shoot' discussions that I did. Maybe more beginners are needed in discussions to get wider range of different levels of 'photgraphers' as members? (...and that was a bloody hard sentence to translate into english... I hope you got the idea!) :)

[sorvju-f]

I think dSLR is a natural choice if you are UW photo professional or even semi. I myself shoot compact. I have started taking photos just lately and not having owned a camera before my A95, I have a lot to learn about taking pictures. Underwater and topside. I just bought Nikon D40 for topside photography and I would like to have a dSLR underwater also, but my time and money is limited, so at the time it would make no sense. However, after two hours of getting used to D40, I already noticed the difference in shutter lag. It was not that obvious before (didn't know any better and was happy with what I had.. :) ), but now it seems like an eternity. Anyway, this will be my underwater camera for the time being. I can still learn a lot with it.

This site is quite professional, and in the beginning I wasn't sure if I should register at all, because I felt that I would be 'out of my league' here. I think it was just because there was a category for 'point and shoot' discussions that I did. Maybe more beginners are needed in discussions to get wider range of different levels of 'photgraphers' as members? (...and that was a bloody hard sentence to translate into english... I hope you got the idea!) :)

Anyhow great that you are here!

Jukka

[sorvju-f]

We want pictures! :D
OK, will do! But not until you post some shots! :cool:
A definite advantage to point and shoots....I mean compacts!;)

Jonathan

I second that;)

Otherwise Like Ed, one of our friend and member from Malaysia, have learned that compact cameras are not just point and shoot, you can really make prof art by them...so why not to use other name for the thread...but only after the pics!

Jukka

[seafan]

Well.... here goes nothing. Must admit that all of you "pros" make us amateurs learing of posting shots taken with P+S but thought I would go ahead and brave the water, so to speak, by posting some taken with the 8000G using the internal strobe only. I'm still saving for an external strobe... seem to spend most of my e extra money on dive trips!! :-)

[Kelly]

Well.... here goes nothing. Must admit that all of you "pros" make us amateurs learing of posting shots taken with P+S but thought I would go ahead and brave the water, so to speak, by posting some taken with the 8000G using the internal strobe only. I'm still saving for an external strobe... seem to spend most of my e extra money on dive trips!! :-)

Wow!! Those are awesome! Thanks for posting them! :)

[sorvju-f]

Well.... here goes nothing. Must admit that all of you "pros" make us amateurs learing of posting shots taken with P+S but thought I would go ahead and brave the water, so to speak, by posting some taken with the 8000G using the internal strobe only. I'm still saving for an external strobe... seem to spend most of my e extra money on dive trips!! :-)

These are really an example that you can make art with "compacts" also!

Jukka

[Jonathan Bird]

That first shot with the banded coral shrimps in the tube sponge shows one of the benefits of shooting with a compact with a built-in strobe. The strobe is close enough to the lens that you can get the light inside the tube sponge. That can be tricky with a big camera if the strobe arms don't articulate enough.

Of course, in general, the strobe being so close to the lens is bad because of backscatter, but in really clear water and maco situations, it can work well. The key to getting the most out of a camera is knowing what kind of images it excels at and work it, work it, work it!

Jonathan

[Daniel]

Well.... here goes nothing. Must admit that all of you "pros" make us amateurs learing of posting shots taken with P+S but thought I would go ahead and brave the water, so to speak, by posting some taken with the 8000G using the internal strobe only. I'm still saving for an external strobe... seem to spend most of my e extra money on dive trips!! :-)

For what it's worth, your photo's are great! In my opinion this board is mutally inclusive and not exclusive regardless of the camera being used. They are plenty of folks using 'P+S' (compact) type cameras and some like yourself are obtaining great results.

I hope you (and others) continue to post and share your photos.

Cheers!
Daniel :)

[Sharp]

I myself shoot compact. I have started taking photos just lately and not having owned a camera before my A95, I have a lot to learn about taking pictures. Underwater and topside.

I have also always shoot with compact cameras like solisti. Actually my first camera was Reef Master filmpocketcamera. Then I have shoot with Power shot 40, 85, 95 and now I´m learnin to use G9.

At the beginning of my UW-photoghraphy, I jused only AUTO-mode. After while I started to study other option to shoot wiht my camera. Then I start to use P-, Sport- and M-mode. I also ought Dome and store.

There is two pictures from same lake in Finland. Notice that summertime water is so varm that we can dive with wetsuit and bare hands, but in same place at the winter time we need bit warmer suits. Another picture have taken in July and another is taken January.

444 446

I have been wery satisfied for compact cameras. :) Simple thinks for simple peoples.;)

All my pictures in my website www.pasilensu.com have taken with compactcameras. Also oldest videos have also filmed with power shot A95 like the video Underwater Snowmobile.

[seafan]

If that first shot is what you call warm water diving, come on down to the caribbean or south pacific. :-)

The thing I like best about compacts is all in their name.... compact! Easy and lightweight to carry everything with you on the plane. I like my 8000G but wish I could shoot RAW. Looked into the 1G but have heard way too many negatives about it so far.

[jamesw]

When I give photo workshops, I use the term "compact" to describe a camera that does not have a through-the-lens viewfinder and interchangeable lenses. Like a Canon G9 or Nikon CP5100

I use the term "point and shoot" to describe a camera that does not have aperture or shutter priority modes - meaning it chooses all of that for you no matter what. Like a Canon Ixus or Nikon Coolpix S series.

Cheers
James

[solisti]

When I give photo workshops, I use the term "compact" to describe a camera that does not have a through-the-lens viewfinder and interchangeable lenses. Like a Canon G9 or Nikon CP5100

I use the term "point and shoot" to describe a camera that does not have aperture or shutter priority modes - meaning it chooses all of that for you no matter what. Like a Canon Ixus or Nikon Coolpix S series.

Cheers
James


Sounds like a good definition to me. To me it doesn't really make any difference what you call your camera. Its the photos you take that are important. I think its the same thing in diving in general; some people like to dive and some people like the dive gear! :rolleyes:

[ChristianG]

Having just found out about uwphotochat, I was looking forward to reading interesting discussions etc.

However, it appears that this forum suffers from a disease affecting many professional and semi-professional photographers: "dSLR snobbery".

Take, for example, the forum titles "Film SLR Photography", "Digital SLR Photography", and "Digital Point and Shoot Photography".
SNIP
Forgive me, but I may not be as polite as others.

What on earth does it matter what the description is, as long as it's understandable to the majority? As someone else said "Point and Shoot" is readily recognised.

I note that the description has now been changed as you suggested. That's fine, but so what? The type, size and capabilities of the camera do not matter, what comes out at the other end having been through that glass is all that matters.

You clearly have some talent at this P&S, sorry, "compact" thingy, why not let your photographs do the talking? And no, I am not trying to be disparaging with that word "thingy" - at all - it's just an expression.

Just like "Point and Shoot" and "compact" for that matter.

Cheers,

Christian

Edit:/ Phew, how's that for a first post? :eek: :\Edit

[Jonathan Bird]

I can see how point and shoot implies that the photographer has nothing to do with the image creation whereas digital compact is a little more complimentary. However, a large percentage of the underwater shooters with "compacts" are in fact just "pointing and shooting" and have little or no creative control over what they are doing.

I agree though, a name is just a name and it's the images that count.

[sorvju-f]

Forgive me, but I may not be as polite as others.

What on earth does it matter what the description is, as long as it's understandable to the majority? As someone else said "Point and Shoot" is readily recognised.

I note that the description has now been changed as you suggested. That's fine, but so what? The type, size and capabilities of the camera do not matter, what comes out at the other end having been through that glass is all that matters.

You clearly have some talent at this P&S, sorry, "compact" thingy, why not let your photographs do the talking? And no, I am not trying to be disparaging with that word "thingy" - at all - it's just an expression.

Just like "Point and Shoot" and "compact" for that matter.

Cheers,

Christian

Edit:/ Phew, how's that for a first post? :eek: :\Edit

My first post was pics...waiting to see yours;)

Jukka

[allison finch]

:D

Hey! I've been posting photos for quite a while here. All my photos, except the newest ones from Belize were taken with my Oly 5060. P&S can take great shots.

[Jules]

maybe it's a language thing? like the boot of a car is called the trunk is the USA?? In the Uk these cameras are digital compacts.

I use an Oly 5050 and i cant afford (and havent researched) buying a strobe yet so I use a dive torch to add light to my pictures. I mostly dive in dark green UK waters but occasionally get to go on holiday.

I like to think I am developing an ability to take pictures using the compact camera and I do a lot more than point and shoot so, as someone who uses the UK version of the English Language, the term does sound a little disparaging.

I came across this forum after A friend (Ken) sent me a link to look at the Lambeh threads.

Here are a few that I recently took in Mabul

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/julia.clark/Sipadan%20Feb%2008/P2170032ghostpipefish.jpg



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/julia.clark/Sipadan%20Feb%2008/P2160114pygmyseahorse.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/julia.clark/Sipadan%20Feb%2008/P2130060scorpianfishface.jpg

[Jules]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/julia.clark/Sipadan%20Feb%2008/P2130101frogfishes.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/julia.clark/Sipadan%20Feb%2008/P1010191flambouyantcuttlefish.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/julia.clark/Sipadan%20Feb%2008/P1010430squid.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v70/julia.clark/Sipadan%20Feb%2008/P9030101ghostpipefish.jpg

Thanks for letting me join in your chat

Jules

[Jules]

and as for the shutter delay... well I have a great collection of fishes tail shots I can share with you :D

[Daniel]

Great collection of photo's Jules... and welcome to the board.

Cheers!
Daniel :)

[tarczy]

Jules-

Great shots with that Olympus 5050. You are doing much better with the Oly 5050 than I ever did (the Oly 5050 was my first digital underwater camera).

I especially love the Frogfish shot with his arm around his buddy. Sweet! :D

Mark

[solisti]

Jules-

[FONT=Comic Sans MS]FONT]

I especially love the Frogfish shot with his arm around his buddy. Sweet! :D

Mark

I think hes giving his mate a push: "Scram, this is my photo!" :D

Great shots!

[tarczy]

I think hes giving his mate a push: "Scram, this is my photo!" :D

Great shots!

Ha ha!! That's an even funnier way of lookin at it!! :D

[Ken Hawk]

Hi Jules
I see you found us ;)

Ken

[Jules]

Hi Jules
I see you found us ;)

Ken

YEp!
I am NEVER going to get any work done now! :D

Jules

[Jules]

I think hes giving his mate a push: "Scram, this is my photo!" :D

Great shots!
Yes he did actually push the other one out of the way, you can see it in the series of pictures I took of them. There were three, two yellow and one red that just all sort of lined up and then jockied for position. You rather get the feeling the frog fish are used to being photographed!

Jules

[Clay Coleman]

Nice stuff! -Clay

[Indigo Dive]

At last a place where I can fit in! I have been using a 'point and shoot' for about 2 years, and recently upgraded to a Sea and Sea DX1 package. Let me tell you as someone who studied photography (albeit 20+ years ago whilst at school) I thought that a compact camera would be easy! Not so! The DX1 has so many settings etc it has taken me quite a while to get to grips with it in manual. It id a smashing little camera, not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but I am pleased with results...

I have a gallery on Facebook (a really easy place to store a share pictures for the enthusiast) http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=15884&l=9b3cd&id=728831227

Here are a few of my favorites....still got lots to learn....

[Indigo Dive]

I'm still saving for an external strobe... seem to spend most of my e extra money on dive trips!! :-)

Take a look at the Fantasea Nano external flash, it's very inexpensive, small, but a great strobe to start with. I have a customer that has just bought one, he dives with me most weekends. He has been using a Olympus compact, and is very pleased with the results.

Kay Wilson,
Indigo Dive,
St. Vincent

[sorvju-f]

One shot with compact

http://sorvjuf.1g.fi/kuvat/2008+Bunaken/firefish+800.jpg/full

Jukka

[Jonathan Bird]

Kay,
You get good results with that little camera!

Jonathan

[Indigo Dive]

Johnathan,

Thanks, one does ones best! Once I can figure out what all the buttons on the camera can do I should get better! I am saving for my first dSLR, but I think that it will be a while before I can afford dome ports, multiple strobes etc....

However, working with a compact means that I have to be creative, and it really has helped me to look at composition, lighting, buoyancy so that when I do manage to upgrade it's going to be easier to make the transition.

Looking forward to participating within this forum!

Kay

[allison finch]

All of my photos, except the most recent ones from Belize, are with an Oly 5060. While that camera does have delay and focus issues, I have loved learning photography with it.