Editing techniques

[sorvju-f]

Moving discussion from Lembeh blog due to jumping out of area

Copied here last posts:

Originally Posted by David White
Thanks for your comments Jukka. You raise some rather interesting points regarding the non diving audience that, to be honest, I had not considered. Narration is another area that I have not previously explored. By the way, can anybody recommend a good microphone with a USB connection for attaching to the computer? To some extent my videos represent the ultimate dive log since they simply chronicle the dive and allow for the opportunity to revisit the site over and over again. This may become invaluable as I age and memory starts to fail.

My initial forays into underwater videography were to record a week of diving in some tropical paradise and recover the costs of the trip by selling copies of the finished product to the other divers . However, the fact of the matter is that I was barely able to recover production costs. Nowadays, I consider myself fortunate if I am even able to recover the excess baggage charges.

So, this begs the question, "Why keep on doing it?" Many divers are passionate about diving. I would venture to say that most underwater photographers and videographers that I know take this passion to an even greater depth (pardon the pun). Some are fortunate enough, and talented enough, to make a career and a living from their work. The rest of us just keep honing our skills in an effort to improve our output. This is where your critique becomes invaluable, since it is through the eyes of others that we are able to see how and where we can make the necessary adjustments to our work.

As an independent underwater videographer it is necessary to wear many hats; producer, director, script writer, videographer, announcer, editor, audio engineer, computer geek, web designer, porter and general all around good guy. Did I miss any? Every once in a while Jonathan puts on the Ultimate Underwater Video Course. Perhaps it is time for me to att

Somethimes in the chats people are too polite to give creative comments and I also thought much if to give it...I have to say that in your videos the clip handling is great and if you yourself feel happy to them...that is the key point.

I learned that the sound in videos is a total own world...hometheaters surround...5.1 channels, 7.1 channels systems need total own army to diving trips and weight of gears is exploring totally new figures. Mixing, collecting sounds, editing sound, effects needs also a huge number of new skills.

Normal way of adding sound to amateur videos is music. I think that in non pro footages 99% have just music. Maybe many have tried to add narration and after noticing that it is actually much more difficult they have jumped to this familiar easy way of sound. Underwater sound world is "rather empty, but if you catch it to video its gives great plus to video. Dolfins and whales voices we all know, but there is more like some anemon fishes are making sound with teeth and spotted drum fish is making sound with swim bladders.

Hi folks what other sounds you have heard underwater?

Actually I am middle of thoughs to put one commercial production to market and thats why I have collected some other owners to different hats you mentioned.

Safe way even in pro productions is to add narration after wards and if I enter to make commercial version thats my choice. ( not me...pro one )

To me driven force is not money...I just want to see if I am able to.

I also learned that when joining clips there are much rules. I have normally softened the transition litlle bit. Pro editor is using that like last case. They are choosing content of clip and joinig them straight to next clip.

Some rules:

- Movement to movement
- Composition...object is end of first clip upper right corner and object ( even it is different ) is upper right corner in next clip.
- thinkable connection...like fish to fisherman.
- size change to same object have to be big enough...no midlle points

People:
- upwards give value to person or can make person ridiculous
- downwars make person sad or seen like resignedly
- In coposition leave room to eyes/look direction
- dont cut peole from the joints...makes handicapped or unreal feeling when making composition

If you know some more rules just add them here ( or should this discussion be in some other threads? )

Jukka


Originally Posted by David White
Just finished editing the video from the 3 days of diving in Bunaken Marine Preserve that a few of us tacked on to the end of the Lembeh trip. The videos have been uploaded to Stage6 and are available at: http://www.stage6.com/OceanView-HD/videos/group:36623. Now I can get started on editing all the footage shot in Lembeh.

Enjoy,

David

Hi David!

Great videos again!

I enjoyd!

After trying to develop as videographer I have interviewed some pro editors who have not dived ( I presented to them also yours footages ) and who looked the UW-material only based on editorial view.

One thing stayed clearly in my mind that specially when the audience is nondivers the clips shoud be UW little bit longer than top side to let audience brains to handle the whole information. When the clips are topside much of the info is already familiar to audience( like houses , roads, trees etc ) and brains are handling that information faster.

I have also tried maily to use 3-5 second clips UW. and comment was that they are too short rather 7 to 10 second. I got the feeling when looking you videos I understood, some clips i wanted too see little bit longer.

I hope that you dont mind but I would like too see and hear from you one day one video, with narration...music you have is beutiful, but narration would give more UW-value...compination of both would be perfect.

Most I enjoyed the night video...but thats my favourite time of dive.

Jonathan when choosing next to interview, why not some video editor...might be very intresting...to me it was...and i was taken down to ground from clouds and dreams...but this can be sometimes important to put your efforts to right things.

Jukka

[David White]

Somethimes in the chats people are too polite to give creative comments and I also thought much if to give it...I have to say that in your videos the clip handling is great and if you yourself feel happy to them...that is the key point.

I learned that the sound in videos is a total own world...hometheaters surround...5.1 channels, 7.1 channels systems need total own army to diving trips and weight of gears is exploring totally new figures. Mixing, collecting sounds, editing sound, effects needs also a huge number of new skills.

Normal way of adding sound to amateur videos is music. I think that in non pro footages 99% have just music. Maybe many have tried to add narration and after noticing that it is actually much more difficult they have jumped to this familiar easy way of sound. Underwater sound world is "rather empty, but if you catch it to video its gives great plus to video. Dolfins and whales voices we all know, but there is more like some anemon fishes are making sound with teeth and spotted drum fish is making sound with swim bladders.

Hi folks what other sounds you have heard underwater?

Actually I am middle of thoughs to put one commercial production to market and thats why I have collected some other owners to different hats you mentioned.

Safe way even in pro productions is to add narration after wards and if I enter to make commercial version thats my choice. ( not me...pro one )

To me driven force is not money...I just want to see if I am able to.

I also learned that when joining clips there are much rules. I have normally softened the transition litlle bit. Pro editor is using that like last case. They are choosing content of clip and joinig them straight to next clip.

Some rules:

- Movement to movement
- Composition...object is end of first clip upper right corner and object ( even it is different ) is upper right corner in next clip.
- thinkable connection...like fish to fisherman.
- size change to same object have to be big enough...no midlle points

People:
- upwards give value to person or can make person ridiculous
- downwars make person sad or seen like resignedly
- In coposition leave room to eyes/look direction
- dont cut peole from the joints...makes handicapped or unreal feeling whe making coposition

If you know some more rules just add them here ( or should this discussion be in some other threads? )

Jukka
There is some valuable information here and I am sure that others will be able to add more.

Regarding underwater sound:

Sometimes the breathing sounds have been included in my videos and sometimes not. When including this sound I will record a couple of minutes worth of just breathing while staying still on the bottom. With luck there will just be your breathing, no sounds of boat motors, diver recall blasts, or other attention getting devices. Then the breathing seems regular and relaxed when underlayed beneath a number of video clips. The underwater audio is one thing that sets video apart from stills, we have the capacity to capture these sounds, still cameras do not. The sounds of parrotfish crunching coral come through very well, some of the other sounds are not as easily captured. The Vegas editing software originated as Acid, which is a very powerful audio editing tool. Consequently the capacity for the software to include all these sounds is immense. Having just acquired a 40" LCD HD TV with 5.1 surround sound system imagine my dismay when I realized that all of my videos are simply recorded in stereo. More stuff to learn.

Narration has been a challenge for me since I have not been able to locate a good microphone that attaches to a computer, nor do I have a soundproof studio to record the narration in. The sound of a furnace motor running in the background, telephones ringing, sirens, door bells, other people in the house etc. all serve to ruin the narration. Note to self...more toys required.

Since a music background is the main source of audio within my videos there are a few rules that I follow. First, I only use royalty free music or music that I have purchased the reproduction rights to use. This represents a significant expense in time and money but I can sleep nights knowing that I am not infringing on copyright. Since royalty free music is not mainstream music that everyone has heard a million times before, it becomes possible to make it belong to the video. Early on I adopted the technique of editing to the music to ensure that clips generally did not exceed the 6 second mark and also to tie the music and video sequences together more closely. This is obviously a lot more work but I think it sets the videos apart from what many other underwater videographers are doing.

The most important element of any video is the story and I think that this is where my videos fail the most. My story is nothing more than taking a video camera underwater and capturing some of the things that were seen, all set to music. Another drawback is that until the video gets published nobody else has seen it. During the editing process I may watch the video dozens, make that hundreds, O.K., reality is thousands of times and, as a consequence, become quite familiar with it. This familiarity probably hinders the creative process.

Bottom line though Jukka is that there are some independent videographers out there who are producing absolutely amazing video. Leandro Blanco immediately comes to mind with his "Dalirium" and "Clown Struck!" videos. Pure genius. Clown struck is available here: http://divefilm.com/dive_films/indexbd12.html#.

[David White]

Great minds think alike Jukka. I started a similar thread...perhaps Jonathan would be kind enough to merge them.

[Jonathan Bird]

OK, I merged them.

One thing I would like to point out is that while underwater videos have a somewhat unique subject matter, they are still just video material, and all the editing techniques are the same as anything else. You can learn editing techniques at any community college in an editing course. I used to teach at Massachusetts Communication College in Boston in the television department and I taught courses that were directly applicable to underwater production, even thought none of them were about underwater video production. Single camera production, non-linear video editing, etc. are all standard college courses that will teach the essentials of composition, exposure, aesthetics of editing, sound editing, etc.

Sound production for professional level underwater films is actually quite complicated because everything must be foleyed or added. I generally have 8 tracks of audio in a typical production which includes foley sounds of scuba breathing in synch with the diver, fish "swishes", underwater sound bed, music, narration etc. I spend a lot more time editing sound than picture in the long run. But good sound is the key to professional production and in many cases a "believeable" film. If people don't have the right sound to go with the picture, their brain doesn't believe it. It's all very subtle.

Any good shooter is also an editor because editing teaches you what shots you need for the edit to make the story flow. After you have attempted to edit something that didn't have the right shots, you quickly learn what those shots are and why you need such things as B-roll, cutaways, point of views, wide, medium, CU and XCU shots. This is why my U/W video course combines shooting and editing--the two just go together hand in hand.

My finest former student (Pierre) can testify that it's not that hard, but there are rules to learn and apply (and sometimes break) but once you know them, it makes things a lot easier.

So, maybe I should offer another course. I have been trying to think of a fun place to do it that has the right facilities. Bonaire is always a good place, but I haven't found a resort I like there with good shore diving, boat diving, a conference room I have have all week for the class, plus reasonably quiet. I have always wanted to do a course on Dominica (for the simple selfish reason that I like it there) but it really isn't a place that has the facilities for a course. I did a course on a live aboard once but I think it's too distracting....I'm trying to run a course while people are coming and going diving, and then there is the rocking of the boat etc. and some people get seasick trying to edit.

Now Lembeh would be the PERFECT place to run a video course, but it is a little far for some!

Sorry, now I'm way off subject.

As for recording audio....

David, take a small closet and line it with some acoustic foam which kills the "live" sound of the space (removing all reverberation) and also cuts noise intrusion. Now get a large-diaphragm condenser mic from Nady or Rode or MXR for about $150 and a small low-noise mixing board with phantom power ($100) from Behringer. Run the mic to the board, run the board to the analog input of a miniDV deck, run the firewire output of the deck to FCP, and you have an extremely high quality narration setup. (You are just using the deck to convert analog to DV). Do not use an HDV deck because it uses compressed audio. Old school DV uses uncompressed 48KHz digital audio.

If that is too tricky, you could try this Rode USB condenser Mic (http://www.privatereserveguitars.com/R0DE-Podcaster-USB-Microphone-270033-i1168885.guitars?source=NWFRWXX&CAWELAID=91846121). Rode makes damn good microphones.

I would also suggest a pop screen (http://www.audiolines.com/Samson-PS01-Pop-Filter-p-14866.html) for professional results.

(The links I provided were the first ones that came up in Google. I would probably buy it all from B&H.)

You will need a stand for the mic, maybe a music stand for the copy (your printed narration) and a cable. Now you are in luck. You can sit your laptop right next to you in the closet (I mean "narration booth") to run the capture. Pretty slick.

Jonathan

[Jonathan Bird]

Damn, that USB mic is so cool, I think I might buy one!

[David White]

Thanks Jonathan. That mic looks really cool. Now if only I had known about it before Christmas. Oh, not to worry, there are birthdays coming up. Now you have me thinking about a home theatre with a soundproofed recording studio attachment. Good thing I no longer have a wifey to convince that these renovations are absolutely necessary to achieve desired production levels.

[David White]

For your next video course Jonathan, Beqa Lagoon Resort in Fiji has amazing diving as well as incredible conference room facilities. Oh darn, it is a bit far too. May have to stay a couple of weeks to justify the travel time.

[Jonathan Bird]

David,
Actually, Fiji is a wonderful idea. It's "far" but not compared to Indonesia. Fiji can be reached by a direct flight from LA, so even though it's 10 hours from LA, it's not hard with lots of stops....just get on a plane in LA and get off in Fiji. I'll have to check that out.

Jonathan

[Jonathan Bird]

The most important element of any video is the story and I think that this is where my videos fail the most.

David,
This realization is 90% of the battle. Most people simply don't get it....all the great imagery, special effects, graphics, celebrity narrators, and music in the world won't help a video that is not engaging, and you can only engage people with a story. If your film has an interesting story, you will be surprised how little most people care about production value. But if your film has production values out the wazzoo and no story, you will be surprised how few people will like it. You see this in Hollywood all the time. Making a good movie is never easy, but without a good story, you are screwed. Waterworld was a perfect example of a hugely expensive, high production-value film with a big name cast, tons of effects and a great premise which totally blew because the story was weak.

A story doesn't have to be very involved, but it engages the viewer and brings them into the film with a vested interest in finding out how it ends.

Jonathan

[tarczy]

If your film has an interesting story, you will be surprised how little most people care about production value. But if your film has production values out the wazzoo and no story, you will be surprised how few people will like it. You see this in Hollywood all the time. Making a good movie is never easy, but without a good story, you are screwed. Waterworld was a perfect example of a hugely expensive, high production-value film with a big name cast, tons of effects and a great premise which totally blew because the story was weak.

A story doesn't have to be very involved, but it engages the viewer and brings them into the film with a vested interest in finding out how it ends.

Jonathan

Blair Witch and Cloverfield spring to mind as two good examples of engaging story lines with poor production values.

Just my $0.02 (which is only worth $0.01 today) ;)

[Papa Bear]

Chuck Nicklen and myself do Video classes at Beqa Lagoon Resort! Great place, no real conformance room, just the Main Bure and you do have to deal with 220volt, but thats no big deal if you know. The Big Fish Feed is wonderful for video and it can be a challenge! I have video of it up at Twotankedproductions.com (http://www.twotankedproductions.com/videoclips/tigarsharkvideo.html)
Of the 4 Meter Tiger Shark in Beqa Lagoon. I go every November witch is late spring.

[Jonathan Bird]

Blair Witch and Cloverfield spring to mind as two good examples of engaging story lines with poor production values.

Just my $0.02 (which is only worth $0.01 today) ;)

I agree that Blair witch had poor production values (poor is being generous...absolute crap is more accurate) but I'm not sure it had much of a story either!! But this is a good example.

[David White]

My first trip with Jonathan was the Tiger sharks last March. I did not realize until after returning home that there was a story there waiting to be told. It is not often that you encounter a 67 year old freediver who has a passion for swimming with the sharks. It would have been relatively easy to obtain the shots required since the participants were all such willing volunteers, Wolfgang and a couple of dozen sharks. But I suppose that I was so caught up with the excitement of being able to freely shoot video of the sharks without a divemaster cautioning me about getting too close that I did not pay enough attention.

It was also the first time that I met Pierre who had more new equipment shipped to the boat than I will ever likely own. Lord only knows what his excess baggage fees are. But he impressed me with the thoroughness of his preparation for the week of shooting. His shot list was several pages long and he spent a lot of time scrutinizing the daily's to ensure that he was getting the footage required for his production. It is a lot of work and this is even before the editing process begins. The difference is that I showed up without having a clue about what I was doing or what the end result was likely to be. Sort of like Mr. Bean's holiday.

Many, many hours are spent trimming the video clips, cropping, colour balancing, contrast adjusting etc. etc. etc. before I consider a video ready to be published to Stage6 and, even then, there are some that I am not happy with. It is quite likely that I have some sort of obsessive compulsive disorder because I keep on doing it and as soon as one project is completed, another one begins. Jonathan scared me off a bit with considering adding narration when he said that he spends more time editing audio than he does editing video. If I spent even more time on the audio than I do on the video we would all be very old before I ever got anything finished.

I think that people's individual pre-conceived perceptions go a long way towards their likes or dislikes regarding the videos. If somebody likes faded transitions and uses them in their videos they expect to see faded transitions in others. Similarly if somebody likes to have a narrative included in their work they want to see it in others. I know that I am guilty of watching other people's work and thinking there should have been a cut here, needed a close-up there, perhaps another choice of sound track would have been better, and on and on and on.

The bottom line though is that I am continuously striving to improve my work and the critiques from other people who are doing the same thing are absolutely invaluable. So, Jonathan, when is your next video course going to be held?

[Papa Bear]

David, A video is like art, it is in the eye and ear of the beholder! To me it should draw you in and hold your attention, make you think, emote and invoke emotional response, and entertain you! If you are educated on the journey all the better, but not required! I agree it is great to get feed back and other points of view! Transitions like sound track add to, if done right, the finished product. Least we forget we are also story tellers as well! "Let me show you!"

[Jonathan Bird]

Jonathan scared me off a bit with considering adding narration when he said that he spends more time editing audio than he does editing video.

Keep in mind that for some of my stuff, we're talking about a lot of nat sound work, foley, narration, music levels that coordinate with narration, etc. You probably wouldn't want or need to go to this level of sound production on your videos. I don't do anywhere near as much fussing with audio for something like a "Blue World" episode to be seen on the web as I do for a production that will be seen on television. The key is to know where to put the effort and when enough is enough. It varies from project to project.

When is a good time for a video course for you David? We can work a time and start from there. I have a few other people that have been asking.

Jonathan

[Ken Hawk]

This is an intresting thread, think I will stick to stills :D
Ken

[David White]

Jonathan,

Scheduling my time at the moment is especially difficult and I know that you are a busy man. My next scheduled trip is not until the end of August so perhaps we can do something between now and then.

[Jonathan Bird]

I just saw this in a catalog. A quick and easy way to use microphones you may already own with USB for a quick and easy narration:

The Mic Mate (http://www.mxlmics.com/condenser_mic/micMate/micMate.htm).

You can get it in a number of places such as here (ttp://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/522285-REG/MXL_MIC_MATE_USB_Mic_Mate_.html).

Jonathan

[Jonathan Bird]

My next scheduled trip is not until the end of August so perhaps we can do something between now and then.

Hey David,
Unless you know 3 more interested people, it is usually pretty hard to schedule these things sooner than a year away because it takes a while to find enough people (4 minimum) to run the course. Most people of course already think they know everything, and don't need a course! :rolleyes: (Those are typically the ones who are lost on day 1).

Jonathan

[David White]

A year away is O.K. Jonathan. By then my situation may have changed. Finding three other videographers interested in taking the course on short notice is like looking for hen's teeth. In fact, looking for underwater videographers is like looking for hen's teeth. It seems these days that at least one member of a buddy pair has a camera but videographers are few and far between. Perhaps it is because of the exhorbitant costs of equipment, or the excessive overweight charges at airports, or the time it takes to edit the video, or just the thought of lugging those beasts around. Or maybe it is just about talent. Yes, that's it...it's all about talent.

[sorvju-f]

I just saw this in a catalog. A quick and easy way to use microphones you may already own with USB for a quick and easy narration:

The Mic Mate (http://www.mxlmics.com/condenser_mic/micMate/micMate.htm).

You can get it in a number of places such as here (ttp://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/522285-REG/MXL_MIC_MATE_USB_Mic_Mate_.html).

Jonathan

Is there some difference when using USB or sound card audio plug?

Jukka

[sorvju-f]

Hey David,
Unless you know 3 more interested people, it is usually pretty hard to schedule these things sooner than a year away because it takes a while to find enough people (4 minimum) to run the course. Most people of course already think they know everything, and don't need a course! :rolleyes: (Those are typically the ones who are lost on day 1).

Jonathan

How about prolonging visit to Yap with one week to have a course there. If I have understood it right, David is coming there and I will be one participant and maybe in the group is some others who have interest?

Jukka

[David White]

Yap could work as long as there is sufficient interest but it would be appropriate to hold the course the week prior to the scheduled trip so that we could put all that new found knowledge to work.

[sorvju-f]

Yap could work as long as there is sufficient interest but it would be appropriate to hold the course the week prior to the scheduled trip so that we could put all that new found knowledge to work.

Great idea David...I dunno other details like is there free hotel rooms etc...and Jonathan have his own time schedule...anyhow this way we could kill to flys with one hit.

Jukka

[Jonathan Bird]

Hey Guys,
That would be a wonderful idea except that I will already be away from home for a while on that trip and my wife will kill me. Besides, Pierre and I already got tickets to travel together!! (No, we are not flying business class, but with the two of us in the same row, it will be wild enough that people wil probably clear out!) ;)

I keep coming back to Bonaire as a good place to do a course because of the ease of shore diving right at the resort, and consistent good weather and water conditions. Last time I did the course at Capt Dons. I need to find a smaller, more intimate place where we have a classroom, a shore dive, and food on premises. Bonaire is pretty easy to get to as well.

Thoughts? I know there are some Bonaire experts here. I sure as heck am not one of them!

Jonathan

[Jonathan Bird]

Is there some difference when using USB or sound card audio plug?

Jukka

Jukka,
If it's a good sound card, there should be no problem except that you will need a good microphone. Since sound cards do not in my experience have XLR-type balanced audio inputs or 48 V phantom power, you can't use a good condenser mic with them unless you have a pre-amp or low-noise mixer. So now you need a sound card, a microphone, and a pre-amp. The little USB gadget I posted gives you a preamp with phantom power and direct conversion to USB. You can plug it into your laptop if you need to and record with a high-end mic anywhere.

Jonathan

[Papa Bear]

A long plane ride! Look at Roatan, maybe Bay Islands Beach Resort, they have the place to do it. Lots of room free shore diving, and Spooky Channel at the back door! Great reefs and lots of critters! A thought! Only 2 hours out of Huston!

[sorvju-f]

Hey Guys,
That would be a wonderful idea except that I will already be away from home for a while on that trip and my wife will kill me. Besides, Pierre and I already got tickets to travel together!! (No, we are not flying business class, but with the two of us in the same row, it will be wild enough that people wil probably clear out!) ;)

I keep coming back to Bonaire as a good place to do a course because of the ease of shore diving right at the resort, and consistent good weather and water conditions. Last time I did the course at Capt Dons. I need to find a smaller, more intimate place where we have a classroom, a shore dive, and food on premises. Bonaire is pretty easy to get to as well.

Thoughts? I know there are some Bonaire experts here. I sure as heck am not one of them!

Jonathan

Same here! Wife says 6 dive trips during next coming year is enough:rolleyes: Prolonging of one would not have increased the number:D

I have been in Bonaire at Capt Don ( small/intimate ? ) and that not my style of place to go there again.

Jukka

[Jonathan Bird]

Papa, are there flights direct to Roatan? Last couple of times I was in honduras, it was a royal pain. You had to fly to San Pedro Sula, then grab another flight to Roatan. What a hole San Pedro is! Also, Roatan and Utila had A LOT of no-see-ums when I was there. The diving was nice, but not what I would call convenient.

Jukka, I agree that Capt Dons is not the best for something like this. Too crowded. Clay has a favorite spot on Bonaire that might work. To run a video course you either need good shore diving, or a private boat that can go out anytime you want because I typically do classroom in the morning, and diving in the afternoon, but the diving varies depending on what we are doing.

Jonathan

[Clay Coleman]

If you are looking for a quiet, convenient place to dive and discuss, I can't think of a more perfect place than The Black Durgon on Bonaire. They're on the web, or you can get with me and I'll give you all the contact info you'll need. -Clay

[Papa Bear]

One hour 55 minutes out of Huston! No more TACA worries! Improved runway and direct on Continental Airlines! SCUBA gear flies free up to 70lbs! Two bags! Facilities are great! And diving is some of the best, my Sea Horse picture you liked so much was taken there!

[Jonathan Bird]

If you are looking for a quiet, convenient place to dive and discuss, I can't think of a more perfect place than The Black Durgon on Bonaire.

Clay, I'll check them out. Is that the place you stay?

Papa, where do you like on Roatan?

[Clay Coleman]

Clay, I'll check them out. Is that the place you stay?
?

The Black Durgon Inn is where I've been going. There's no compressor there, so it's quiet to have classes under the pavilion. There are only 10 rooms, so it's possible that you could book the whole place (even if you don't, you might be the only ones there). Management is usually gone by 10am, so you have the place entirely to yourself. Cheap, too, at about $100 a day as I remember. The only inconvenience is having to pick up tanks by the parking lot and delivering empties back to the parking lot so Rick can get them filled. It's a short distance but you have to go up some stairs. No big deal, if you ask me (or Sharon--a small, middle-aged woman). The standard dive package includes 3 tanks per day, but additional tanks are cheap if you want them. Plus, there is no restaurant (Doris will cook breakfast each weekday morning). We generally get a burger at Capt. Don's for lunch and make sandwiches in the evening so we can keep the night diving schedule open. There's a grill and a stove there, so you can cook if you want. There's also a big communal fridge to keep your refreshments in.

The Durgon is not plush! The rooms have A/C, but they ask that you not run it when you're not in the room. "Small Wall" (house reef) is a fairly popular stop for boat divers from other places, and there will be a boat there at least once a day (especially if there are frogfish or seahorses hanging out there, which is pretty common). However, the dive on the other side of the Durgon pier is also very good and always clear of other divers. Other than that, you have the ocean to yourselves.

One more thing: The pier ladder is steep. I bring a clip-line to lower and raise my camera from the water while standing on the pier rather than trying to deal with that steep ladder with a camera.

MAN! Just talking about it has me making plans to go back! -Clay

[Papa Bear]

I know the owners of Bay Islands Beach Resort very well! I was on the team that surveyed Spooky Channel!

[Papa Bear]

The last time i was there I did 21 dives in 51/2 days! August of 07! Two boat dives a day are included and free shores dives! Right there only a few feet from the resort! Three meals a day and a great bar!

[Jonathan Bird]

In order to keep this thread on track (editing!) I am going to start a new thread to contain this conversation because I want to keep it going.

Jonathan

[Jonathan Bird]

Here's the new thread on Bonaire versus Roatan (http://www.uwphotochat.com/forums/showthread.php?t=452)....

[sorvju-f]

There are these plates you should use for color correction and whitebalance.

Some questions?

How often/why you are correcting manual whitebalance and what is actually the right color to do it...I have seen light blue and white-white plates?

For editing you can make at the beginning test run with color plate ( several colors plate ) to correct the right colors during editing. Is there idea to use them?

Jukka

[David White]

I use the Amphibico white balance and colour bar chart to set white balance before a shot. The white balance chart is actually a cool blue which apparently warms the reds. There are a number of variables that affect it's effectiveness though; distance from lens, angle of light striking chart, distance of lens from subject, angle of light striking subject and probably many more. Sometimes I white balance on sand and sometimes by aiming the lens directly at the sun. Afterwards you can spend countless hours mucking about in post to get the colours you want. The best and most accurate colours would likely be obtained by attaching a couple of 50W HID's to your housing abd shooting everything from a only few feet away. BTW, Amphibico dropped the price of their charts to about $100 from the more than $300 I paid for mine.

[sorvju-f]

I use the Amphibico white balance and colour bar chart to set white balance before a shot. The white balance chart is actually a cool blue which apparently warms the reds. There are a number of variables that affect it's effectiveness though; distance from lens, angle of light striking chart, distance of lens from subject, angle of light striking subject and probably many more. Sometimes I white balance on sand and sometimes by aiming the lens directly at the sun. Afterwards you can spend countless hours mucking about in post to get the colours you want. The best and most accurate colours would likely be obtained by attaching a couple of 50W HID's to your housing abd shooting everything from a only few feet away. BTW, Amphibico dropped the price of their charts to about $100 from the more than $300 I paid for mine.

Hi David!

I think you mean this one?

http://www.nautica.at/images/amphibico_acwb0711.jpg

What is this circle for?

How far you should keep the plate?

Jukka

[David White]

Jukka, that is the one. Get the smaller one if you decide to buy, since it offers less resistance underwater. The circle is a focusing ring.

[sorvju-f]

The circle is a focusing ring.

I have already it, but sorry the big one!

What you are doing with this focusing ring? Dont say that I have to place it next to fish to get it focused...I am not that good:D

Jukka

[Jonathan Bird]

You Amphibico people amaze me. :rolleyes: $300 for a white card....and it's not even white? I use a $10 white divers slate, 6"x4".

Jonathan

[David White]

Way back when I made the purchase of the white balance chart I figured that maybe Amphibico had worked out some scientific evaluation of exactly which "white" would bring out the best colours underwater. Later I realized that they had only worked out a means to extricate even more dollars from my wallet. They are certainly not shy when it comes to setting their prices.

Jukka, the focus ring works well when you can set it down in the sand and adjust for manual focus. You should have an opportunity to try this out when you dive with the sharks in the Bahamas.

[Jonathan Bird]

David,
Off-white cards (slightly blue or pink to produce an offset white balance for warm or cool look) are used sometimes in the above water production arena, but the effect is quite subtle. The vast majority of the time, people simply white balance on something that is white and handy, like a wall or a T-shirt. Ask any "pro" videographer how they white balance and they will tell you 95% of the time they just find whatever is nearby that is white. There is certainly no harm in using the amphibico "slightly blue" white card to produce a warm (slightly red) white balance setting, as long as it doesn't go too far and oversaturate the shadows so they look pink. In practice though, a plain old dive slate produces a perfect white balance.

Jonathan

[David White]

Thanks Jonathan,

When I first started filming I also used a white slate but having been conditioned through the years by mass media marketers thought that something being sold for hundreds of dollars by a reputable underwater housing manufacturer must indeed hold some secret solution to the diffusion of colours underwater. Then again, that was also way back in the days before we had the benefit of chat forums. You see what a wonderful service these forums provide, now I have a much better idea as to where I have wasted my money.

[Jonathan Bird]

Well, it wasn't a waste of money...it's a nice white balance card!! But Amphibico is good at making simple things complicated and expensive!! :D

Jonathan

[sorvju-f]

Have you used gain underwater and if yes in what situations?

Jukka

[Jonathan Bird]

Jukka,
I'm not sure I understand the question. Most people are shooting with the auto exposure underwater, so the exposure is entirely calculated and set by the camera, which includes the iris (aperture), shutter speed and gain. If you choose to shoot in full or partial manual (sometimes necessary if the camera is not exposing the image to suit your tastes) then you can individually control these, typically by locking the shutter speed at a desired setting and then manually diddling the aperture and/or gain.

Typically high gain creates a lot more noise in the picture, so that is the last resort. However, yes, there are a few times when I have cranked the gain underwater. One was in a cave where I didn't have bright enough lights. The result was a noisy picture. Shooting wide at night you may run into this. In general, brighter lights are better than more gain!

Jonathan

[sorvju-f]

Jukka,
I'm not sure I understand the question. Most people are shooting with the auto exposure underwater, so the exposure is entirely calculated and set by the camera, which includes the iris (aperture), shutter speed and gain. If you choose to shoot in full or partial manual (sometimes necessary if the camera is not exposing the image to suit your tastes) then you can individually control these, typically by locking the shutter speed at a desired setting and then manually diddling the aperture and/or gain.

Typically high gain creates a lot more noise in the picture, so that is the last resort. However, yes, there are a few times when I have cranked the gain underwater. One was in a cave where I didn't have bright enough lights. The result was a noisy picture. Shooting wide at night you may run into this. In general, brighter lights are better than more gain!

Jonathan

I understood that the gain is to circumstances "better some shootage than no shootage"...what I dont understand is that why producers are putting lot of efforts and money to these non-useful things ( like still in video-camera )...they are loosing my money:confused:

Jukka

[David White]

On the shark dive in Roatan at a depth of 80' with overcast and stormy skies the gain automatically adjusted on the camera. The result was grainy footage that could not be used, I just leave those adjustments up to the automatic function of the camera. With my vision there is enough to deal with just trying to get the focus set correctly. Actually I appreciated the still setting on the VH-2000 housing and VX-2000 camera. The resulting still shots were much better quality than screen grabs from the video and after all you need some stills for the DVD cover.