HD Video anyone

[nemo]

Question please: Has anyone tried any of the new HD Video cams out there
JVC seems to be a very cool piece. If so do they have a housing that gives full control?

[Jonathan Bird]

The Sony HDV cameras are outstanding and there are housings available for both the Z1 and A1. I have shot with both of them and they both produce a nice image. The smaller pixels of HD cameras means they have poorer low-light capability that you may have come to expect from SD cameras, but it just means you need to pay more attention to lighting. The new version of Final Cut pro natively edits the MPEG video stream produced by the HDV format very easily as well, so it is no biggie to edit. Of course, it's a slipperly slope. You will need a new camera, and housing. New software, a faster computer, an HDTV to watch it on....and soon a blu-ray burner....etc.

Jonathan

[nemo]

I have looked at the sony hd lineup... seem to be the direction.
poor-light is a concern.
i am glad to hear you have used them.
sad, to play always cost ya.... and will the blue-ray be the direction for the future... at CES06 no one seem to really know.
thanks again.. oh by the way do you have a DVD out in HD format?

[Jonathan Bird]

Nemo,
I'm in the middle of post production on my first film shot in HDV. When it's done it will be delivered to the buyer in D5 or HDCAM format, whichever they prefer. As for DVD, at present I do not have the hardware or software to produce an HDDVD or Blu-ray disc. Not to mention, almost nobody can play one. I will likely do a 16:9 anamorphic SD DVD instead.

Jonathan

[UWPhotoTech]

The future of HD video is on rocky ground right now.... Sony is putting their entire weight ( and much of their future depends on it) on the Blu-Ray format, HD-DVD already has a head start. Blu-Ray is a much better medium but it's very expensive, even with the numerous cuts that Sony is taking to put it on the market...... Hopefully the market will follow since Sony seems to hold the market for most Underwater Video...:D

[David White]

I progressed to HD last year with the purchase of the SONY HVR-Z1U camera and the Amphibico Phenom housing. This constituted a reasonable financial investment in the HD format but, as Jonathan suggests, it is a slippery slope. It was also necessary to purchase a computer and upgraded software to specifically handle the requirements for editing HD footage. At the moment I still cannot produce HD output but Blu-Ray burners are now coming on to the market with a starting price of about $1000. When DVD burners first came out they were also similarly priced but today can be purchased for less than a $100. As the technology gets developed we will see pricing that is more affordable and HD will definitely become the video format of choice until something better comes along. Although some of my SD videos still bring a smile to my face when I view them, there really is no comparison to the quality that the HD camera provides.

If you have not yet made a purchasing decision I would suggest that you seriously consider the transportation issues. The Phenom housing almost always requires excess baggage charges at the airport and, unless you have exceptionally strong arms or are looking for a bit of a workout, it is a lug to carry around on shore. However, in the water it is an absolute delight to use. The smaller SONY HVR-A1U camera and Amphibico Pro-Evo housing would likely qualify as carry-on. Whichever decision you make, ensure that the camera and housing have the capability to white balance underwater otherwise you are pretty much wasting your time and money.

[Jonathan Bird]

The smaller SONY HVR-A1U camera and Amphibico Pro-Evo housing would likely qualify as carry-on. Whichever decision you make, ensure that the camera and housing have the capability to white balance underwater otherwise you are pretty much wasting your time and money.

You can say that again. White balance is key.

The A1U is a fantastic little underwater camera. Image quality is indistinguishable from the Z1 and the added features of the Z1 are not needed underwater. (But needed above water). The A1U is much smaller and the housing is a fraction the size. The A1U also has an amazing telemacro mode that makes it incredible for macro underwater. For this reason, I shot a whole film with this camera earlier this year. The Z1 was used for only surface shots. But the new Canons that are coming out are going to blow the Sonys away, unfortunately.

Jonathan

[David White]

And so it goes. Commit to a camera and housing and within a year or two at the most it has been replaced with a superior product. Virtually impossible to keep up with the advancements in technology. Deep pockets...I need very deep pockets.

[Daniel]

And so it goes. Commit to a camera and housing and within a year or two at the most it has been replaced with a superior product. Virtually impossible to keep up with the advancements in technology. Deep pockets...I need very deep pockets.

Very true David, but you do have "many" pockets. LOL

Cheers!
Daniel :D

[nemo]

what have i done, I got into photography to make a living.. odd it seems to always cost more to stay ahead of the pack.. then as a hobby i got into scuba .. and now HD video..
maybe i should be looking at stamp collecting.....
thanks for the insight on cams.

[tgeers]

It's nice seeing all this info on HDcams. I'm going to put together a HD rig next spring and I'll be back to ask for advice. I want to keep it small but still have a decent Wide Angle lens and manual white balance.

[Jonathan Bird]

Thanks Tim!

The new port for the Ikelite HVR-A1 housing using a .5x wide lens is almost ready. They sent me a prototype last week but it was not quite what I wanted. I should have the finished one soon.

Of course, I think that camera is already discontinued, so it's on to the next one! The new Sony V1 is looking promising, and has full 24p, but it's almost as large as the Z1, so that rules it out if you want something small. I have yet to investigate the HC3. Ike has a housing for it already, but I'm not sure what port they are putting on it.

Jonathan

[tgeers]

I'll start putting the HD rig together in late January or February of next year. Hopefully the perfect size and port will be waiting for me. Once again...love the site.

[Ryan]

HC3 Housings are shipping from several players. This camera has a 3 lux rating, twice as good as the A1. I traded the A1 in for the HC3. The camera rocked in Galapagos last week :), but its strength is the eyepopping color, detail, and sharpness.

I've been using both the LMI Bluefin and Seatool HC3. The bluefin has 1-push white balance, but the Seatool housing is tiny.

http://uwimaging.com/HC3/index.htm

http://www.reefphoto.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5_20&products_id=1267&zenid=87660aa196d06f2b90be9d8f4c0a1007] Seatool HC3 Info from ReefPhoto.com (http://www.reefphoto.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5_20&products_id=1267&zenid=87660aa196d06f2b90be9d8f4c0a1007)

Ikelite has manual white balance, too, and is shipping with the threaded flat port.
http://ikelite.com/web_two/sony_hc3.html

[tgeers]

Ryan- The HC3 sounds interesting for dedicated underwater work. How's the viewfinder...is it usable at all underwater? The reason I ask is because I'm thinking about the Ikelite housing.

[Ryan]

Unfortunately, it has one of the worst viewfinders I've seen in a video camera. Recessed way in the body, and tiny, it is difficult to use.

I'm a monitor guy, I find using viewinders or mirrors to be a real pain in the a$$. That being said, the mirror solution used in the Seatool & Ikelite housings is better for confirming fine focus than the current monitor solutions from light & motion are (due to higher pixel density).

[Jonathan Bird]

I am a guy who prefers a good viewfinder, but these are few and far between these days. The viewfinder on the A1 is next to useless. I was pleasantly surprised at how well the flip-out mirror on the Ikelite worked with the LCD screen, even in bright light. I'm getting used to it and it's not bad at all.

Ikelite is currently building me a dome port for the A1 housing so I can use a .5x WA lens on the camera. The external Inon wide lens is nice because you can remove it to do macro. (The flat port kicks butt for macro!) So it's a decent all-around wide/macro/general shooting solution, but for serious wide work, it's not wide enough, and it's soft at the corners unless you are stopped way down (i.e. lots of light).

My biggest complaint with these cute little housings is that they are too damned small to shoot with well. They are just too light and hard to hold steady when you swim. That is one major advantage for that massive boat anchor that Amphibico makes for the Z1, or my old tubular VX-1000 housing from Ikelite.

Jonathan

[tgeers]

Thanks for the input. I'm getting the H3. I'm going to test it out in green water first. I really can't wait to see the color saturation in blue water though.-Tim

[Jonathan Bird]

Yo Geers....when are we going for a test dive???? Hows the dry suit....??:p

[NaCl H2O]

Jonathan mentioned in an earlier post:

"But the new Canons that are coming out are going to blow the Sonys away, unfortunately."

What do you think the new Canons have that the Sonys don't?

[Jonathan Bird]

All three of the Canon 3 chip HDV cameras (H1, XH-A1, XH-G1) use a true 1440x1080 chipset. Keep in mind that the true 1080 ATSC spec calls for 1920x1080 pixels (16:9 aspect). The HDV format reduces the amount of data to store by using rectangular pixels and only recording 1440x1080 in the same aspect ratio. In this way, the HDV spec is not capable of recording the full horizontal resolution of true 1080 HD to start with, then you add the lossy compression of HDV (mpeg). Still, HDV looks incredibly good. Canon uses a full 1440x1080 chipset (all three chips have this resolution) which have been tested to deliver about 1,000 lines of horizontal resolution. The picture is amazingly sharp, the sharpest of all the HDV cameras on the market. Sony's Z1 uses a 960x1080 chipset, and offsets the green channel by half a pixel so they can interpolate 1440x1080 from (3) 960x1080 chips. It's not as sharp by a long shot. DV Magazine measured the Sony at only 600 lines of horizontal resolution, which is about what a high end BetacamSP STANDARD definition camera can deliver. Even Sony's little single-chip HVR-A1 with a single large 3 MP sensor delivers more resolution than the Z1.

I had hoped that the new Sony V1 which has 24p capture would be an improvement, but it still has 960x1080 chips (this time CMOS instead of CCD) but places the pixels on the chips in a diagonal pattern, like the holes in a chain link fence. This, they claim allows them to get the full resolution of 1440x1080 chips. But it doesn't. It's marginally better than the Z1 but still can't touch the Canon chipset unfortunately. (And the 24p scanning mode uses a rolling shutter that renders it useless as well).

So I'm going to commission a housing for the Canon XH-A1 which I believe is currently the best camcorder in the HDV market for image quality. It also has excellent manual control. Canon also has the best optics in the industry (Sony farms out lens design). I have always considered myself a "Sony guy" rather than a "Canon guy" and I have always owned Sony camcorders. But there comes a time when I have to admit that Canon has squarely kicked their butt. Sony is too busy protecting their more expensive lines of cameras (HDCAM, CineAlta) by limiting functionality and performance of the lower cost lines. Canon hasn't got a higher end to protect, so they are free to do whatever they want.

Just my $.02.

Jonathan

[Daniel]

It's enough to make most consumers scratch their heads in bewilderment trying to keep up with the ever changing technological landscape and the lack of standards.

You must shop wisely and hope you jumped on the right band-wagon.

A products life isn't long before its replaced with something newer even though it was very likely a great product. That often means the product won't be supported for long, flash updates (updating chips) will cease which is pet peeve of mine whether it's camera's or other electronic product. Take a look at the next generation of DVD players/recorders... who knows what will happen next.

Stepping down from my soapbox.

Daniel

[sorvju-f]

All three of the Canon 3 chip HDV cameras (H1, XH-A1, XH-G1) use a true 1440x1080 chipset. Keep in mind that the true 1080 ATSC spec calls for 1920x1080 pixels (16:9 aspect). The HDV format reduces the amount of data to store by using rectangular pixels and only recording 1440x1080 in the same aspect ratio. In this way, the HDV spec is not capable of recording the full horizontal resolution of true 1080 HD to start with, then you add the lossy compression of HDV (mpeg). Still, HDV looks incredibly good. Canon uses a full 1440x1080 chipset (all three chips have this resolution) which have been tested to deliver about 1,000 lines of horizontal resolution. The picture is amazingly sharp, the sharpest of all the HDV cameras on the market. Sony's Z1 uses a 960x1080 chipset, and offsets the green channel by half a pixel so they can interpolate 1440x1080 from (3) 960x1080 chips. It's not as sharp by a long shot. DV Magazine measured the Sony at only 600 lines of horizontal resolution, which is about what a high end BetacamSP STANDARD definition camera can deliver. Even Sony's little single-chip HVR-A1 with a single large 3 MP sensor delivers more resolution than the Z1.

I had hoped that the new Sony V1 which has 24p capture would be an improvement, but it still has 960x1080 chips (this time CMOS instead of CCD) but places the pixels on the chips in a diagonal pattern, like the holes in a chain link fence. This, they claim allows them to get the full resolution of 1440x1080 chips. But it doesn't. It's marginally better than the Z1 but still can't touch the Canon chipset unfortunately. (And the 24p scanning mode uses a rolling shutter that renders it useless as well).

So I'm going to commission a housing for the Canon XH-A1 which I believe is currently the best camcorder in the HDV market for image quality. It also has excellent manual control. Canon also has the best optics in the industry (Sony farms out lens design). I have always considered myself a "Sony guy" rather than a "Canon guy" and I have always owned Sony camcorders. But there comes a time when I have to admit that Canon has squarely kicked their butt. Sony is too busy protecting their more expensive lines of cameras (HDCAM, CineAlta) by limiting functionality and performance of the lower cost lines. Canon hasn't got a higher end to protect, so they are free to do whatever they want.

Just my $.02.

Jonathan

What is the latest development in HD area....planning to update my set?

What are the biggest differences 3xccd versus 3xcmos?

Ambhipico seems to have external LCD built in to back side of housing and at the same time they are selling new external HD-screen. Anyone have comment to that ( maybe David knows )?

Jukka

[David White]

Helo Jukka,

I believe that the monitor that is built into the back of the Pro Evo HD housings from Amphibico is their 3.5" 4:3 monitor. I have one of these for the VH-2000 housing and intended to use it with the Phenom housing. However, the Z1 camera shoots in 16:9 and so when the Amphibico Prism monitor (no longer available) was released I purchased one of these for the Phenom housing instead of using the 3.5" monitor. My preference has always been to use a monitor so that shots can be more easily framed and found that the viewing window on the top of the Phenom housing did not allow me the same buoyancy control that I can exercise by holding the housing with an arm's length approach.

Given that the 3.5" monitor originally sold for $1395 US it represents a real bargain now that it is included in the housing. Another benefit of the smaller, lighter Pro Evo housing is that it can be taken on-board as carry-on luggage relieving the excess baggage charges and the stress of waiting for your equipment to be delivered through the oversize luggage chute at the airport.

One of the difficulties with purchasing HD video cameras is that the manufacturers keep coming out with new models with new features on an alarmingly regular basis. It will be interesting to see the results that Jonathan acquires with the Canon XH-A1 so that I can make a more informed decision as to which camera to purchase next.

There are some very good reviews that Paul Wags has written on the Phenom housing, EVO housing, the 16:9 external monitor and SONY FX1 and A1 cameras here: http://www.hdvunderwater.com/. Scroll down to the bottom left corner of the page for the reviews.

[sorvju-f]

Helo Jukka,

I believe that the monitor that is built into the back of the Pro Evo HD housings from Amphibico is their 3.5" 4:3 monitor. I have one of these for the VH-2000 housing and intended to use it with the Phenom housing. However, the Z1 camera shoots in 16:9 and so when the Amphibico Prism monitor (no longer available) was released I purchased one of these for the Phenom housing instead of using the 3.5" monitor. My preference has always been to use a monitor so that shots can be more easily framed and found that the viewing window on the top of the Phenom housing did not allow me the same buoyancy control that I can exercise by holding the housing with an arm's length approach.

Given that the 3.5" monitor originally sold for $1395 US it represents a real bargain now that it is included in the housing. Another benefit of the smaller, lighter Pro Evo housing is that it can be taken on-board as carry-on luggage relieving the excess baggage charges and the stress of waiting for your equipment to be delivered through the oversize luggage chute at the airport.

One of the difficulties with purchasing HD video cameras is that the manufacturers keep coming out with new models with new features on an alarmingly regular basis. It will be interesting to see the results that Jonathan acquires with the Canon XH-A1 so that I can make a more informed decision as to which camera to purchase next.

There are some very good reviews that Paul Wags has written on the Phenom housing, EVO housing, the 16:9 external monitor and SONY FX1 and A1 cameras here: http://www.hdvunderwater.com/. Scroll down to the bottom left corner of the page for the reviews.

Thanks very much David, I will do my decission now in autum, so lets follow the situation and if there is some news just let me know!

Jukka

[sorvju-f]

Helo Jukka,

I believe that the monitor that is built into the back of the Pro Evo HD housings from Amphibico is their 3.5" 4:3 monitor. I have one of these for the VH-2000 housing and intended to use it with the Phenom housing. However, the Z1 camera shoots in 16:9 and so when the Amphibico Prism monitor (no longer available) was released I purchased one of these for the Phenom housing instead of using the 3.5" monitor. My preference has always been to use a monitor so that shots can be more easily framed and found that the viewing window on the top of the Phenom housing did not allow me the same buoyancy control that I can exercise by holding the housing with an arm's length approach.

Given that the 3.5" monitor originally sold for $1395 US it represents a real bargain now that it is included in the housing. Another benefit of the smaller, lighter Pro Evo housing is that it can be taken on-board as carry-on luggage relieving the excess baggage charges and the stress of waiting for your equipment to be delivered through the oversize luggage chute at the airport.

One of the difficulties with purchasing HD video cameras is that the manufacturers keep coming out with new models with new features on an alarmingly regular basis. It will be interesting to see the results that Jonathan acquires with the Canon XH-A1 so that I can make a more informed decision as to which camera to purchase next.

There are some very good reviews that Paul Wags has written on the Phenom housing, EVO housing, the 16:9 external monitor and SONY FX1 and A1 cameras here: http://www.hdvunderwater.com/. Scroll down to the bottom left corner of the page for the reviews.

I think the next model have 16:9 internal monitor
http://www.amphibico.com/amphibico/product.jsp?sid=44059521263740810821073895671&ctid=1000001&pdid=1000209,
but its for sony HDR-FX7 and HVR-V1 models. So which one to choose?

[Neptune7]

I'm going for the RED camera! 4K of resolution. 8 times the rez of high end professionnal HD cameras. Enough resolution for an Hollywood superproduction, tapeless and you can edit it directly in Final Cut 6, drag and drop in real time. I can also use my Nikon lenses with the cam.

Now I gotta find a housing for the RED...

Pierre

[Jonathan Bird]

Pierre,
Funny you should mention that. I working on a proposal for a film shot on the RED right now and I have a friend trying to help me raise the funding. Gates is making a housing for it.

You will have some issues with the Nikon lenses, using them as cine lenses.

A full system with the RED camera/lenses/ports/housing/HD/monitor will be around $50,000 USD. If my funding comes through, I'll be buying a pair of them. I can't discuss the project here...it's top secret. ;) But I'll tell you in Malaysia.

It's actually a bit more than a 4K camera, but only about 5 times the pixels of 1080p, or a tad more than twice the resolution in each axis, but as good as 35mm film or even a tad better. Not quite as good as 70mm, but close. Most 70mm film is scanned and the digital post done at 4K so it's not far off.

Jonathan

[Neptune7]

Pierre,
Funny you should mention that. I working on a proposal for a film shot on the RED right now and I have a friend trying to help me raise the funding. Gates is making a housing for it.

You will have some issues with the Nikon lenses, using them as cine lenses.

A full system with the RED camera/lenses/ports/housing/HD/monitor will be around $50,000 USD. If my funding comes through, I'll be buying a pair of them. I can't discuss the project here...it's top secret. ;) But I'll tell you in Malaysia.

It's actually a bit more than a 4K camera, but only about 5 times the pixels of 1080p, or a tad more than twice the resolution in each axis, but as good as 35mm film or even a tad better. Not quite as good as 70mm, but close. Most 70mm film is scanned and the digital post done at 4K so it's not far off.

Jonathan

When great minds meet... GMC Great Minds Convention

We indeed have a lot to talk about. See ya in Malaysia, roomie!

Pierre

[Papa Bear]

The new Canon's are true HDMI out for uncompressed 1940x1080i now it is about the housing. If I were to do it today it would be the new Canons! They are true HD cameras! It is only going to get better! I hate this race even if you win you lose! I am so confused, but don't give up on 9/8 the are supposed to release the new cable for fire wire to HDMI for uncompressed capture that will allow the HDV to be up graded to 1940x1080i, but nothing bets the Canons! Oops what about 1080p? :(

[sorvju-f]

but its for sony HDR-FX7 and HVR-V1 models. So which one to choose?

So I ended up to HDR-FX7, http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10151&catalogId=10551&langId=-1&productId=11034787

and Amphibico WHENLAHD, http://www.amphibico.com/amphibico/product.jsp?sid=62831383018000385639248648673&ctid=1000001&pdid=1000209

I think 10 000 EUR is enough!

Jukka

[Jonathan Bird]

Holy crap, the FX7 housing is even more expensive than the Z1!!

[sorvju-f]

Holy crap, the FX7 housing is even more expensive than the Z1!!

The base housing is cheaper, this one have 16:9 HD-sreen inside the housing + 94 degree full zoom wide angle lens, presenting half of the price.

What I didnot like in the camera that there is lot of things for making pics of 1 MP, why I dont understand...I feel I will never use them.

Why I then choose this ( have to mention that i am not pro):

1 Its HD level ( again there is possibility to shoot normal DV....Why? ) , so its better than my previos one!

2 Its light 1,5 kg

3 There is lot of manual actions

4 There was ambhibico housing for it with many electronic controls for that, which I am experienced to use .

5 The price was more than half lover than HVR-V1 and Z1

(I am just learning the camera so I dont know everything )

Why I choose Amphipico:

1 I have never had problem with my previous housing, but I have had lot off problems with other product of Amphibico.

2 The monitor is inside the housing, not needing outside wire connection ( I have had problems with 3,5 inch monitor connection, its plastic 3-pin connection without locking att all... I have to say here that I love Ike stobe-connections )

4 The monitor is also 16:9 HD

5 Full zoom dome

I am telling this here, because many of our readers are in same process and this was one.

[Jonathan Bird]

It looks like a very cool housing, and I played with one a little at Beneath The Sea (a dive show) in NJ last spring when they were first developing it. At the time, it did not have manual white balance and I told the guy that without that, they might as well not market the housing because nobody will spend that much on a housing and not have manual white balance. They must have figured it out because this new one has manual white balance.

I have seen and used Neptune7's big giant Amphibico Z1 housing and it is a beast. It is a dream to use in the water as it is big and heavy, with neutral buoyancy, which makes it easy to shoot smoothly. It has an excellent viewfinder and logical controls. (Not crazy about the vignetting though). Traveling with it would be a giant pain! Also, I am very suspicious of electronic housings because of reliability. Everyone I know that has lost dives or entire trips to failed video gear is because of the failure of the electronics in the housing, not failure of a camera or a mechanical housing. I am sorry to report that all but one such case was people with Amphibico and having the buttons in the handles leak and damage the electronics inside. Amphibico says that this problem is now solved. I don't think Neptune7 would agree.

I gravitate towards old school manual video housings with no electronics like Ikelite and Gates. That's just me. Not as sexy, not as easy to run underwater, and not as many slick features (some of which I really like such as internal flip filters) but more reliable and simple, easy to modify and considerably less expensive.

That being said, I would love to get my hands on one of these funky new Amphibico FX7 housings to play with for a day. It looks really cool.

Jonathan

[sorvju-f]

That being said, I would love to get my hands on one of these funky new Amphibico FX7 housings to play with for a day. It looks really cool.

Jonathan

You will have a change to play!

Jukka

Sometimes it just a point to make decission even we know that next week the decission would be something else:confused:

Jukka

[sorvju-f]

I got my Ambhibico videohausing today and fall in love immediately!

Jukka

http://sorvjuf.1g.fi/kuvat/UW-chat/Videoset+p.jpg/full

[Jonathan Bird]

ooohh!! Ahhhh!!!:) Sweet.

Now go shoot some video!!

[Neptune7]

Holy crap, the FX7 housing is even more expensive than the Z1!!

The Phenom (Z1 housing) doesn't have a integrated LCD viewer. You either uses the the camcorder LCD screen thru the glass window on the top or the viewfinder. Just the cost of the LCD screen makes the price difference.


Pierre

[sorvju-f]

The Phenom (Z1 housing) doesn't have a integrated LCD viewer. You either uses the the camcorder LCD screen thru the glass window on the top or the viewfinder. Just the cost of the LCD screen makes the price difference.


Pierre

There was alternatives either SD Monitor or HD Monitor ( mine HD )
with different prices.

I think this one influences to price a lot

http://www.amphibico.com/amphibico/product.jsp?sid=18942876259731643615515737321&ctid=1000009&pdid=1000168&op=sp

¨Jukka

[Papa Bear]

Welcome to the world of HD! Now the real world sets in and you have figure out what to do with the footage you shoot. Including getting it into you computer and what editing program and finally what DVD format and Squeeze program. Not to mention a million other toe stubbers on the way! You my friend have opened Pandora's Box! Please keep use informed;) :eek:

[Neptune7]

I have seen and used Neptune7's big giant Amphibico Z1 housing and it is a beast. It is a dream to use in the water as it is big and heavy, with neutral buoyancy, which makes it easy to shoot smoothly. It has an excellent viewfinder and logical controls. (Not crazy about the vignetting though). Traveling with it would be a giant pain! Also, I am very suspicious of electronic housings because of reliability. Everyone I know that has lost dives or entire trips to failed video gear is because of the failure of the electronics in the housing, not failure of a camera or a mechanical housing. I am sorry to report that all but one such case was people with Amphibico and having the buttons in the handles leak and damage the electronics inside. Amphibico says that this problem is now solved. I don't think Neptune7 would agree.

Jonathan

Jonathan knows I am very partial to Amphibico. I live half an hour drive from their office. Very practical but the main reason is that I never had a problem with PD-150-170 housings (I had two and never failed me in any way). The Phenom (Z1) is another story. Vignetting with the earlier version was a serious weakness. Now it is more acceptable but still not perfect (the camcorder position has to be manually ajusted on the tray so there no vigneting and you won't noticed it until you capture your footage because you don't see the complete picture on the camcorder screen and that is a pain the neck). Not all Amphibico fault. Sony's!
Last May, one button on the right handle leaked (not the customer fault because the user never has to "play" with those) and shortcircuited the whole handle. I lost 2 days of diving in the Red Sea deep south. But it wasn't a recurring problem from Amphibico like Jonathan seems to think. It was a single faulty button assembly and not at general defect. They replace the whole handle free of charge. Amphibico used the same handles and buttons on the PD-150 housings and other proffessionnal housings for more than 10 years now and like I said, never had a problem!
I love Amphibico housings. They are extremely well made and I am sure, Jukka, your are gonna have a lot of satisfaction with your new toy.

Pierre

[sorvju-f]

Jonathan knows I am very partial to Amphibico. I live half an hour drive from their office. Very practical but the main reason is that I never had a problem with PD-150-170 housings (I had two and never failed me in any way). The Phenom (Z1) is another story. Vignetting with the earlier version was a serious weakness. Now it is more acceptable but still not perfect (the camcorder position has to be manually ajusted on the tray so there no vigneting and you won't noticed it until you capture your footage because you don't see the complete picture on the camcorder screen and that is a pain the neck). Not all Amphibico fault. Sony's!
Last May, one button on the right handle leaked (not the customer fault because the user never has to "play" with those) and shortcircuited the whole handle. I lost 2 days of diving in the Red Sea deep south. But it wasn't a recurring problem from Amphibico like Jonathan seems to think. It was a single faulty button assembly and not at general defect. They replace the whole handle free of charge. Amphibico used the same handles and buttons on the PD-150 housings and other proffessionnal housings for more than 10 years now and like I said, never had a problem!
I love Amphibico housings. They are extremely well made and I am sure, Jukka, your are gonna have a lot of satisfaction with your new toy.

Pierre

I also have never had problems with itself the housing, and thats the reason i was brave enough to put lot of money to it. With an external monitor I had enough problems ( mainly with the connection trough the housing ). Thats why I trust more to this internal monitor!

Jukka

I have studied whole day the details and more I like it! Pierre for sure i will have fun with this!

Papa Bear, I know what you are speaking about...next step to clarify editing needs!

Jonathan! Final recovery of leg going on and then...

[David White]

Nice looking rig Jukka. Just think, no overweight baggage charges every time you even think about entering an airport and you don't have to worry about one arm becoming longer than the other. Fortunately in Indonesia the divemasters were kind enough to carrry my Phenom back and forth. Now I have been completely spoiled. Think I may change my intials to HH.

The HD monitor and the wide angle lens probably add a couple of thousand euros to the price of the housing. By the way, I am on my third Amphibico housing and have never had a problem that was not user related. I like the idea of the monitor being built into the housing although I use Amphibico's Prism Monitor mounted on the top of the Phenom. One of these days I may opt for the HD monitor, the Pro Arc 35/50 Watt lamps, a couple of back-up cameras, Sennheiser external microphones, and a 17" MacBook Pro with Final Cut Pro software, but then I would have to change my initials to PS.

Remember, he who dives with the most toys...wins.

[Neptune7]

One of these days I may opt for the HD monitor, the Pro Arc 35/50 Watt lamps, a couple of back-up cameras, Sennheiser external microphones, and a 17" MacBook Pro with Final Cut Pro software, but then I would have to change my initials to PS.

Remember, he who dives with the most toys...wins.

Please! Give me a break. What is the point of having all those toys and staying north, reading your Lembeh blog? :(

Show us some footage!

Pierre

[sorvju-f]

Nice looking rig Jukka. Just think, no overweight baggage charges every time you even think about entering an airport and you don't have to worry about one arm becoming longer than the other. Fortunately in Indonesia the divemasters were kind enough to carrry my Phenom back and forth. Now I have been completely spoiled. Think I may change my intials to HH.

The HD monitor and the wide angle lens probably add a couple of thousand euros to the price of the housing. By the way, I am on my third Amphibico housing and have never had a problem that was not user related. I like the idea of the monitor being built into the housing although I use Amphibico's Prism Monitor mounted on the top of the Phenom. One of these days I may opt for the HD monitor, the Pro Arc 35/50 Watt lamps, a couple of back-up cameras, Sennheiser external microphones, and a 17" MacBook Pro with Final Cut Pro software, but then I would have to change my initials to PS.

Remember, he who dives with the most toys...wins.


Thanks David, you got me smiling with your last comment immediately after wake-up without coffee and thats something.

As lights I am using 2 x 50 W Kowalski Xenon and 10 W HID from Abhibico and I am very happy with them ( adding 4 kg to baggage ) ( i am usually warnig otherones divig simultaneosly with me that by looking straight to lights gives them 2 minutes black out ). The weight is really the question? I dont know the totality with still camera and diving equipments + flaptop, but I assume it is about 80 kg ( give me a good TIP to get into plane without extra charge ).

I have played with the system top side and I am very satisfied with it. Hope underwater its well balanced

Is the final cut pro the best?

Jukka

[David White]

Although still struggling with the after effects of jet lag, several of the tapes from Lembeh have been downloaded to the editing system. When going through the clips the question keeps getting asked, "Why was this shot taken?" Some of these creatures are so adept at camouflage that, unless they move, they are virtually indistinguishable. There are still three tapes from the March shark trip that have yet to be edited so kindly observe the most important rule in scuba diving and don't hold your breath waiting for something from Lembeh. Besides, if something were posted it would only serve to make you feel worse about having missed out. But you are right Pierre, what is the point of having all these toys and no opportunity to use them. Perhaps you would care to join Jonathan and me on our "No Jet Lag Around the World Liveaboard Dive Cruise". Just waiting to hear whether Jonathan can get permission for this one.

[Jonathan Bird]

Christine says she gives me permission to do the "Around the World Dive Trip" as long as she gets to go. So now we just need an around the world babysitter so we can dive!

[David White]

Excellent!

[sorvju-f]

Hi guys, now I need good advice for purchasing good editing program for HD.

- I think that it should be real time
- some of them are just for mac...mine not
- what kind of processor needed

I looked first footage ( top side ) straight from camera to 40 inch full hd and
its like being yourself inside the movie...amazing!

Please advice!

Jukka

PS Answer is needed before your "Around the World Dive Trip"

[Jonathan Bird]

Jukka,
I can be of no help unless you are willing to buy a Mac. In that case, my answer is Final Cut Pro and there is no other application worth considering in my opinion!

Jonathan

[sorvju-f]

Jukka,
I can be of no help unless you are willing to buy a Mac. In that case, my answer is Final Cut Pro and there is no other application worth considering in my opinion!

Jonathan

Jonathan, I will go tomorrow to one real editing studio ( pro people ) to see how they are working and what are the tools...lets see!

Jukka

[David White]

Jukka,

The Event DV November 2006 issue gave the results of an intensive testing of the top NLE software programs. The overall total rating was:
SONY Vegas 6.0b - 23.5
Apple FCP 5 - 21.5
Adobe Premiere Pro - 18
Pinnacle Edition 6.1 - 17.5
Avid Xpress Pro - 14.5
Event DV can be accessed here:http://www.eventdv.net/

Many of the top shooters, Jonathan included, use Apple based systems and Final Cut Pro. I have used SONY Vegas, now version 8.0, since shortly after I began editing and it works for me. The cost to switch over to an Apple system and Final Cut Pro was not justifiable at the time that I was upgrading. Bear in mind that HD editing is going to put your computer through it's paces. I ended up configuring a system specifically for editing. As far as I know all of the NLE's have a fully functional trial period so you can take them for a test drive. Do your research now and select the NLE that you prefer. Once you have made the commitment in time and money to familiarize yourself with an NLE it becomes increasingly difficult to justify switching over to another platform. Hope this helps.

[sorvju-f]

Jukka,

The Event DV November 2006 issue gave the results of an intensive testing of the top NLE software programs. The overall total rating was:
SONY Vegas 6.0b - 23.5
Apple FCP 5 - 21.5
Adobe Premiere Pro - 18
Pinnacle Edition 6.1 - 17.5
Avid Xpress Pro - 14.5
Event DV can be accessed here:http://www.eventdv.net/

Many of the top shooters, Jonathan included, use Apple based systems and Final Cut Pro. I have used SONY Vegas, now version 8.0, since shortly after I began editing and it works for me. The cost to switch over to an Apple system and Final Cut Pro was not justifiable at the time that I was upgrading. Bear in mind that HD editing is going to put your computer through it's paces. I ended up configuring a system specifically for editing. As far as I know all of the NLE's have a fully functional trial period so you can take them for a test drive. Do your research now and select the NLE that you prefer. Once you have made the commitment in time and money to familiarize yourself with an NLE it becomes increasingly difficult to justify switching over to another platform. Hope this helps.

David, this was top answer.

I will look some more pro editing labs how they are working and what they are using.

I have used Canopus Edius 3 DVX, but HD is puting me to new situation and thats why I asked.

I will let you know my decission.

Jukka

[sorvju-f]

After collecting info and because I have good combuter ( not mac ) my choice will be this one

http://www.adobe.com/products/creativesuite/production/

It includes combination of PhotoShop CS3 ( which I have to update some day anyhow, new cameras will not have RAW plug-ins to CS2 ) and Adobe premiere Pro CS3 with several other supporting programs, like after effects, to work together with stills, HD and sounds.

Its worth of looking the tour

Jukka

[David White]

Hello Jukka,

When making your purchasing decision you may want to consider these guys; they generally have prettty aggressive pricing. The website is available at:
http://videoguys.com/.

David

[sorvju-f]

Hello Jukka,

When making your purchasing decision you may want to consider these guys; they generally have prettty aggressive pricing. The website is available at:
http://videoguys.com/.

David

Thanks again David!

I love the prices, but when I am ordering them to Finland it's coming +22% VAT
+3,2 % duty:( .

When I purchased Amphibico housing from Canada above figures were added to listprices.

When I go to Bahama, I THINK I WILL HAVE 80 KG BAGGAGE WHEN GOING AND 200KG WHEN COMING BACK...liveboars shoud have TAX FREE with latest collection of photo toys:rolleyes:

Many of net-shops are not at all delivering things to Finland, maybe because some political issues...dunno.

I saw first time this blue-ray burners...wow!

There is a debat between HD DVD and Blue-ray. According some statistics HD DVD is leading clearly...again dunno.

Jukka

[sorvju-f]

I noticed that there is some things you have to take in account, when moving to HDV:

When you move to HDV its not only processor of PC, which comes to limitation. The single hard disk is not fast enough to reed and write HDV.
The speed should be more than 120 MB per second rather more than 200MBs. The writing speed test of my 7200rpm hard disk gives the writin speed figures less than 10 MBs.

The solution for this is serial disk with RAID ( the disks are working simultaneously ) and there have to be at least 3 disks combined. These are costing a lot ( my candidate EUR 1500 ).

And of coarse DVD writer with 4,7 GB is not suitable for final video you need some blu ray writer or...

Finally you need at least 52" Full HD screen to enjoy you result...otherwise this all is useless;) :D :rolleyes: :cool:

Jukka

David, what are your solution for this?

[David White]

I took it one step at a time Jukka. First the camera, then the housing, then the computer, then the software, then accessories for the housing, then more software, then software upgrades, then external hard drives, then a laptop and another computer. Oh, did I forget to mention tapes...dozens of those at $20 each. Mix all of these ingredients together with inordinate amounts of time and you can produce a video. Whoo Hoo! But, you may have noticed that the HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player and 52" HD LCD TV is missing from my list of ingredients. That is because I don't have them yet. Very nearly picked up a Sharp 52" TV at the Boxing Day sale but they were sold out and the HD DVD burner will have to wait until the price drops below the cost of a new computer. So, I content myself by watching the videos on my computer monitor and dream of the day when I wil be able to construct my own home theater.

[sorvju-f]

I took it one step at a time Jukka. First the camera, then the housing, then the computer, then the software, then accessories for the housing, then more software, then software upgrades, then external hard drives, then a laptop and another computer. Oh, did I forget to mention tapes...dozens of those at $20 each. Mix all of these ingredients together with inordinate amounts of time and you can produce a video. Whoo Hoo! But, you may have noticed that the HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player and 52" HD LCD TV is missing from my list of ingredients. That is because I don't have them yet. Very nearly picked up a Sharp 52" TV at the Boxing Day sale but they were sold out and the HD DVD burner will have to wait until the price drops below the cost of a new computer. So, I content myself by watching the videos on my computer monitor and dream of the day when I wil be able to construct my own home theater.

Do you think that the steps have been taken after blu ray burner and 52" Sharp?:D :D :D :D

[Jonathan Bird]

HDV is MPEG compressed to allow it to be compressed to the same data rate as DV, 25 Mbps. That is why they both can use the same tape and transport. HDV does require more processor power than DV, but it does not require faster drives.

Other forms of HD definitely require faster drives, but HDV is pretty compressed.

Jonathan

[sorvju-f]

HDV is MPEG compressed to allow it to be compressed to the same data rate as DV, 25 Mbps. That is why they both can use the same tape and transport. HDV does require more processor power than DV, but it does not require faster drives.

Other forms of HD definitely require faster drives, but HDV is pretty compressed.

Jonathan

Jonathan you are the pro and I am novis with HD:D . So I have to ask what forms of HD you are using and why?

I have started test run the new camera with this 1920x1080 50i. I have also understood that always when you are using tape the form is automaticly compressed ( somehow I have the feeling that these DV-tapes is the next
ones to leave to history and then reason to renew your camera ).

Uncompressed quality I understand like still RAW, but what is the advantage of that in our "normal life"...is there idea to use it for UW-work at all...or is it just studio thing?

The transfer cables and forms are its own story, but there I have understood that HDMI cables are the best and future?

Jonathan and everybody who just have this knowledge just correct if I am wrong and give your comments!

Here is one producer of the card to get the HDMI connection from camera to PC giving instructions for transfer speeds and test of speeds with my PC:

http://sorvjuf.1g.fi/kuvat/UW-chat/+Speed+test+b.jpg/full

Jukka

[sorvju-f]

I got my housing back from Canada and also this suber dome with full-zoom!

I went to swimming hall to test run and everything went OK!

I wanted to see how this HD quality is looking like in net!

Here is sample 40 seconds and 40 MB:

http://sorvjuf.1g.fi/Uimahalliwinhd.wmv

This is packed to half from maximum ( actually I couldn't see any difference to full one )

Eiffel tower as a model is 7 cm and the cup width is 10 cm.

With this higher quality all the mistakes specially in still footage can be seen better...I feel UW monopods and tripods are needed and I am working with them.

When you look this, remember that same sharpness is present in 52 inch full- HD-television!

Jukka

[sorvju-f]

I have had problems with editing HD-quality.

I have Adobe Premiere-Pro program and it is crashing time to time, specially when you are operating/adjusting the clip...with sd no problems. Have somebody really tried to do HD-video to run trough blu-ray?

If yes, what is your processor, physical memory, graphic card and what kind of memory system you have ( RAID )?

Jukka

[David White]

Jukka,

When I made the transition to HD it was necessary to upgrade my computer as well since the old Pentium 4 would only handle clips that were converted to SD in camera. Have not yet made the transition to Blu-Ray since the burners and media are still prohibitively expensive. My editing computer is a dual Xenon processor @ 3.2Ghz with 4Gb Ram and 4 x 256Gb drives in a Raid 5 array. Hey, it was state of the art 3 years ago but would probably be blown out of the studio by systems from the local computer store costing less than a $1000 today. However, I have never experienced any system problems since the upgrade. I edit using Vegas Pro 8, render the clips as Windows Media Video V9 (*.wmv) at 1280 x 720 for display at www.vimeo.com/oceanview. Looking forward to viewing your work.

David

[sorvju-f]

Jukka,

When I made the transition to HD it was necessary to upgrade my computer as well since the old Pentium 4 would only handle clips that were converted to SD in camera. Have not yet made the transition to Blu-Ray since the burners and media are still prohibitively expensive. My editing computer is a dual Xenon processor @ 3.2Ghz with 4Gb Ram and 4 x 256Gb drives in a Raid 5 array. Hey, it was state of the art 3 years ago but would probably be blown out of the studio by systems from the local computer store costing less than a $1000 today. However, I have never experienced any system problems since the upgrade. I edit using Vegas Pro 8, render the clips as Windows Media Video V9 (*.wmv) at 1280 x 720 for display at www.vimeo.com/oceanview. Looking forward to viewing your work.

David

Hi David ( soon we are testing our gears together in YAP )!

The need to net-videos sd-quality is totally enough, but I haven't actually heard that someone ( private ) has done blu-ray disk yet from diving video ( with full quality ).
I can see the quality straight from camera HDMI to 52 inch FullHD televesion and it is amazing...I know that SD-quality will be history soon and I will totally concentrate to HD.

My processor is clearly worse than yours ( Xenon sinle 3,6 GHz ) and there is already quadro processors 3,0 GHZ in the market. I am planning to upgrade mine, but one thing is that Big Bill ( retiered yesterday ) is concentrating to Vista and soon updates for XP is over.

Anyhow I have a problem which I have to solve before getting new videos ready:(

Jukka

[Jonathan Bird]

Guys, seriously. Get Macs. :)

[Daniel]

Anyhow I have a problem which I have to solve before getting new videos ready:(

Jukka

These so-called problems wouldn't have anything to do with home renovations would they? :p

[sorvju-f]

These so-called problems wouldn't have anything to do with home renovations would they? :p

I got your point Daniel:D

You are right that to me the step to do video-project compared to editing one pic is much higher...to edit one pic takes one minute or so and to make video project takes one week or one month...

Kitchen is ready...depending on my dive plan for next year it might be also living room and lobby...( permission from the wife )...:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Maybe I am too tough concerning the quality of editing...but when I am doing something it should be as perfect as possible.

Anyhow I have started with videos from the trips of this year and that is something, which keeps the hope to get something puplished here also.

Jonathan...MAC might be OK, but it would be again something new to learn...there is at to moment enough things to learn...new still camera...new videovamera...Adope Premiere with production programs ( after Canopus )...lightroom...new housing....to get good quality I have to first finish ( or getting to acceptable level ) with someting.

One thing here in Finland is that main part of pro producers are using Premiere and I feel i should stay in line.

Jukka

[sorvju-f]

I have noticed that HD is bad in low light conditions and when moving the camera.

When you look the results from big screen dark areas and even blue sky when panning or tilting goes unsharp and looking unreal...part of the shootage start to look like lego-construction.

Advice is that you have to move your camera extra slow, use lights always when its low light.

Just my remarks!

Jukka

[Jonathan Bird]

Jukka,
You are very observant.

The smaller pixels of HD cameras means that the low-light performance is not as good as SD cameras. They are "noisy" in low light because the HD camera needs more gain to pull a picture out of the noise. This is true with all cameras from consumer to professional, but of course the professional ones are not as bad as the less expensive consumer cameras.

HDV is an mpeg-2 compression-based format. This is a very efficient compression scheme which allows HD images to be squeezed onto miniDV tape at only 25 Mbps, but the disadvantage is that it can exhibit "motion artifacts" with rapid camera movement. It gets blocky-looking. Fortunately, careful shooting techniques can reduce this significantly. Don't worry...even if you bought a $50,000 camera which wouldn't exhibit these effects, the broadcaster uses mpeg to compress the show once it airs on TV and it will still end up having these effects anyway. So careful use of motion is necessary even if your camera doesn't have this issue because all forms of distribution now use mpeg, from the web to cable TV, to satellite to digital broadcast!

Jonathan

[sorvju-f]

Jukka,
You are very observant.

The smaller pixels of HD cameras means that the low-light performance is not as good as SD cameras. They are "noisy" in low light because the HD camera needs more gain to pull a picture out of the noise. This is true with all cameras from consumer to professional, but of course the professional ones are not as bad as the less expensive consumer cameras.

HDV is an mpeg-2 compression-based format. This is a very efficient compression scheme which allows HD images to be squeezed onto miniDV tape at only 25 Mbps, but the disadvantage is that it can exhibit "motion artifacts" with rapid camera movement. It gets blocky-looking. Fortunately, careful shooting techniques can reduce this significantly. Don't worry...even if you bought a $50,000 camera which wouldn't exhibit these effects, the broadcaster uses mpeg to compress the show once it airs on TV and it will still end up having these effects anyway. So careful use of motion is necessary even if your camera doesn't have this issue because all forms of distribution now use mpeg, from the web to cable TV, to satellite to digital broadcast!

Jonathan

I have now worked two weeks with HD-editing ( still with my old computer gears ) and I am loosing my nerves...

I can do a capture and edit the clips to timeline...but immediately when trying to adjust something with Adobe Premiere pro is crashed. There are lot of bugs when using HD.

Taking you sequence back to tape like master tape has so far been impossible.

Rendering 20 minutes sequence is taking 7 hours and always so far the final result is having something wrong ( colours, movements, light, sharpness ).
Again trying something and waiting 7 hours to see if the try was worth it...

I feel that the editing world is not really ready for HD...or I am just not able...anyhow I am continuing my leaning process...and maybe some day I can present you something like our shootages from Bahama.

Jukka

[Neptune7]

Hi Jukka,

I hate to say that but "Get a fast Mac and Final cut pro".
I have been editing since a while with Final Cut Pro and the transition to HD was not painfull at all. I never had the troubles you are experiencing.

Adobe Premiere is not as stable as Final Cut. Keep your PC for business and start enjoying editing with a true professional editing software.

See you in Yap!

Best,

Pierre

[Jonathan Bird]

Pierre is right! I love Adobe products....mostly....but Premiere is nowhere near the quality and stability of Final Cut. A fast new Mac and FCP will make editing HDV a lot easier for you.

Jonathan

[sorvju-f]

Pierre, you are right it should be fun and enjoyable!

Have you really done bluray-project to the end?

This MAC and FCP really starts look like good alternative!

Maybe I can test your laptop in YAP?

Jukka

[Neptune7]

It will be a pleasure to show you. Blu-ray? Not yet but soon a reality.


Pierre

[David White]

Jukka,

Sorry to learn of your frustrating problems with editing HD video. I have been using SONY Vegas from the very beginning and although I had to upgrade my editing computer system when I upgraded to HD, the software has never presented a problem. In fact, I can even edit HD files on my laptop using Vegas. All transitions, colour corrections, crops, in fact any changes you make, are displayed in real time so you can immediately see the effect without having to render the file first. DVD Architect Pro, the companion DVD authoring software, already offers Blu-Ray capability.

[sorvju-f]

Jukka,

Sorry to learn of your frustrating problems with editing HD video. I have been using SONY Vegas from the very beginning and although I had to upgrade my editing computer system when I upgraded to HD, the software has never presented a problem. In fact, I can even edit HD files on my laptop using Vegas. All transitions, colour corrections, crops, in fact any changes you make, are displayed in real time so you can immediately see the effect without having to render the file first. DVD Architect Pro, the companion DVD authoring software, already offers Blu-Ray capability.

David, don't worry...learning here is one reason to be here.

Great that your SV is working well!

I was planning to upgrade my computer gears anyhow and now this mac-system to me is strong...are you David using mac?

Jukka

[David White]

No Jukka I am too PC dependent to go on over to the dark side. Poor old Billy Gates needs more of my hard earned cash to keep him atop the Forbes wealthiest man alive list. Seriously though, if you are considering upgrading your editing machine check out the Mac line-up, they have lots to offer even if they are a bit more expensive. And remember, "He who dives with the most toys wins!"

[Andrew]

Jukka,

I made the leap 2 months ago to Mac but I only do a small amount of editing of holiday movies and nothing as technical as you on HD or blue-ray... I am sure the day will come but underwater photographs are just fine for me now and still need a lot of work!

I used a Mac years ago and stayed away as I was too reliant on PC's for various applications which I had mastered. Anyway, the switch has been made and I must tell you it is one of the best decisions I have made in a long time, it was pain free and now everything is 10 times quicker and more efficient. I still run windows on my Mac for those occasional programs through VMware Fusion (which seems to run windows at the same speed as any PC), but the Mac software is easy to use.

On the cost, I shopped around between Mac and PC and in the UK there really is not big difference in the price but in my opinion, the Mac works better and looks a lot cooler as well :cool:

Andrew


PS. If you go Mac.. go for the big screen its worth it!

[sorvju-f]

Jukka,

I made the leap 2 months ago to Mac but I only do a small amount of editing of holiday movies and nothing as technical as you on HD or blue-ray... I am sure the day will come but underwater photographs are just fine for me now and still need a lot of work!

I used a Mac years ago and stayed away as I was too reliant on PC's for various applications which I had mastered. Anyway, the switch has been made and I must tell you it is one of the best decisions I have made in a long time, it was pain free and now everything is 10 times quicker and more efficient. I still run windows on my Mac for those occasional programs through VMware Fusion (which seems to run windows at the same speed as any PC), but the Mac software is easy to use.

On the cost, I shopped around between Mac and PC and in the UK there really is not big difference in the price but in my opinion, the Mac works better and looks a lot cooler as well :cool:

Andrew


PS. If you go Mac.. go for the big screen its worth it!

Thanks Andrew...mac is leading...

Jukka

[sorvju-f]

Pierre is right! I love Adobe products....mostly....but Premiere is nowhere near the quality and stability of Final Cut. A fast new Mac and FCP will make editing HDV a lot easier for you.

Jonathan

I have made now a step to Mac book pro and FCP studio!

One thing is that so far FCP looks like missing bluray support?

Instead it offers Apple ProRes 422 for uncompressed HD quality at SD file sizes, but it is not the same. I think that target was to consentrate to HD DVD, but that is now more or less dead.

Do somebody knows more about FCP and bluray?

Jukka

[Jonathan Bird]

The current version of DVD Studio Pro (which is part of the Final Cut Studio 2 Package) does not support BluRay authoring, although Compressor will create the BluRay compliant H.264 mpeg files you need to make a BluRay disk. I am assuming that since they supported HD DVD which is dead, the new version of DVDSP will support BluRay...it would be insane not to.

The current version of Final Cut Studio did not upgrade DVD Studio Pro from the previous rev, hence no change, and the reason why it still has HD DVD in it.

The problem is licensing. BluRay is owned by Sony and they are being difficult about allowing others to license the technology. Now I'm beginning to see why, even though HD DVD was inferior, so many companies embraced it--because it was easier/cheaper to license. Now that the competition is gone, Sony has us by the balls. :mad:

Jonathan

[Papa Bear]

Nero 8 supports Blue-ray authoring. I use Sorensen Squeeze and Nero 8 with a blue ray Burner.

[sorvju-f]

Nero 8 supports Blue-ray authoring. I use Sorensen Squeeze and Nero 8 with a blue ray Burner.

Have you really done some bluray projects ready...if yes you are first one I know as amateur....and how was the final video?

Jukka

[Jonathan Bird]

Nero is PC only. I thought it was more like a disk burning utility like Toast. You can't actually author with it, can you (like, design menus, interface, etc.)?

[Papa Bear]

It has rudimentary editing, but you are right. Most programs I have seen don't allow from capture to DVD in one, unless they are lower end. Just my observation.

[Jonathan Bird]

Toast 9 has some of this rudimentary Blu-ray disk creation capability, but the only application that can do real authoring for Blu-ray on the Mac in the way that DVD Studio Pro does for DVD is Adobe Encore CS3.

The Final Cut Compressor application will create the Blu-ray compliant files, but you still need an authoring program to design menus, etc. and create the disk image to be burned on the Blu-ray burner.

I don't think it will be too long before DVD Studio Pro and other apps have the licensing issues worked out.

Jonathan

[sorvju-f]

Toast 9 has some of this rudimentary Blu-ray disk creation capability, but the only application that can do real authoring for Blu-ray on the Mac in the way that DVD Studio Pro does for DVD is Adobe Encore CS3.

The Final Cut Compressor application will create the Blu-ray compliant files, but you still need an authoring program to design menus, etc. and create the disk image to be burned on the Blu-ray burner.

I don't think it will be too long before DVD Studio Pro and other apps have the licensing issues worked out.

Jonathan

I will soon have both FCP and Adobe production CS4 ( Mac version ) so it might be that you can make editing with FCP and create H.264 file...take it to encore and make bluray disk...newer know before trying:D

For sure FCP will have nearest future licencing question clear...when sony is strong it will be more expensive, but final end we are the payers:(

Jukka

[Jonathan Bird]

I will soon have both FCP and Adobe production CS4 ( Mac version ) so it might be that you can make editing with FCP and create H.264 file...take it to encore and make bluray disk...newer know before trying:D

That should work great!